4 ms·

VPN will make you a target. That's the whole point of recording at the ISP level, the traffic is still quite individualized.

higherpurpose 12y ago
Saying "encryption makes you a target" represents a lack of understanding for how spy agencies monitor all communications. It's not like spy agency analysts target only some people and when they are in their offices and see some encrypted traffic from someone they go: "AHA! This guy uses encryption - let's monitor his (encrypted) communications and his metadata!" It's more like everyone's wide-open communications are monitored in real-time and automatically searched for keywords. Not using encryption makes you more exposed and vulnerable to mass surveillance, not less, because everything is exposed by default without encryption and everything is searched. It doesn't matter whether you're plotting an attack or "only talking about cats (therefore they can't possibly be interested in what I'm saying!)". It doesn't work like that, because there isn't a human that does the automatic searching, but software. To make it even simpler: it's like law enforcement saying "hmm, this guy put curtains on his windows - he must have something to hide! Let's watch him more closely to see where he's going when he leaves the house, and such" vs you going to law enforcement and giving them a daily report of what you've been doing, as well as full recordings of everything you talked about. Which is worse?
- nraynaud 12y ago
  in that framework, consider that encryption is just a special keyword. And then they see that not a lot of people use it, then they have an opportunity to add just a bit more effort to those cases (maybe just storing the encrypted traffic), because there are so few.
  - mahyarm 12y ago
    A lot of corporations use VPNs, and a bunch of them use them to connect to foreign offices. It's not as uncommon as you think.
  - tomjen3 12y ago
    That is okay. I stream Spotify through a VPN try to break that much traffic only to find my playlist.
    - tajen 12y ago
      How expensive is a VPN which lets you stream sevetal Gigs a month with good quality?
      - rhizome 12y ago
        I haven't tried it, but the cheapest Digital Ocean droplet is US$10/mo. It's a raw (virtual) server you can install whatever you want on.
      - tomjen3 12y ago
        Private Internet Access is insanely cheap. http://www.vpnfan.com/blog/private-internet-access-review/ http://www.vpnfan.com/blog/private-internet-access-review/
- linkregister 12y ago
  Not sure why @higherpurpose was downvoted, she or he described accurately the surveillance programs revealed by Ed, according to the leaked documents [1]. Of course we don't have the luxury of leaked French docs, but in the absence of data, we shouldn't automatically leap to the position supported by the least amount of evidence. [1] Selectors used: https://prod01-cdn00.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2014/03/selectors-1024x768.png https://prod01-cdn00.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/20...
  - zurn 12y ago
    Because the description was one sided and neglected to mention NSA's VPN related activities. Eg that they actively seek to discover and keep track of VPN users. And that traffic analysis is generally as powerful as content inspection once you have a target.
    - linkregister 12y ago
      Hmm, I didn't read that one. Can you point me to the source for that?
      - zurn 12y ago
        Sure: http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/workspace/nsa-xkeyscore-vpn-cracking-123499 http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/workspace/nsa-xkeyscore-vpn-... http://www.hacker10.com/internet-anonymity/secret-documents-show-the-nsa-is-spying-on-vpn-users/ http://www.hacker10.com/internet-anonymity/secret-documents-...
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

higherpurpose 12y ago

Saying "encryption makes you a target" represents a lack of understanding for how spy agencies monitor all communications. It's not like spy agency analysts target only some people and when they are in their offices and see some encrypted traffic from someone they go: "AHA! This guy uses encryption - let's monitor his (encrypted) communications and his metadata!" It's more like everyone's wide-open communications are monitored in real-time and automatically searched for keywords. Not using encryption makes you more exposed and vulnerable to mass surveillance, not less, because everything is exposed by default without encryption and everything is searched. It doesn't matter whether you're plotting an attack or "only talking about cats (therefore they can't possibly be interested in what I'm saying!)". It doesn't work like that, because there isn't a human that does the automatic searching, but software. To make it even simpler: it's like law enforcement saying "hmm, this guy put curtains on his windows - he must have something to hide! Let's watch him more closely to see where he's going when he leaves the house, and such" vs you going to law enforcement and giving them a daily report of what you've been doing, as well as full recordings of everything you talked about. Which is worse?

nraynaud 12y ago
in that framework, consider that encryption is just a special keyword. And then they see that not a lot of people use it, then they have an opportunity to add just a bit more effort to those cases (maybe just storing the encrypted traffic), because there are so few.
- mahyarm 12y ago
  A lot of corporations use VPNs, and a bunch of them use them to connect to foreign offices. It's not as uncommon as you think.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  That is okay. I stream Spotify through a VPN try to break that much traffic only to find my playlist.
  - tajen 12y ago
    How expensive is a VPN which lets you stream sevetal Gigs a month with good quality?
    - rhizome 12y ago
      I haven't tried it, but the cheapest Digital Ocean droplet is US$10/mo. It's a raw (virtual) server you can install whatever you want on.
    - tomjen3 12y ago
      Private Internet Access is insanely cheap. http://www.vpnfan.com/blog/private-internet-access-review/ http://www.vpnfan.com/blog/private-internet-access-review/
linkregister 12y ago
Not sure why @higherpurpose was downvoted, she or he described accurately the surveillance programs revealed by Ed, according to the leaked documents [1]. Of course we don't have the luxury of leaked French docs, but in the absence of data, we shouldn't automatically leap to the position supported by the least amount of evidence. [1] Selectors used: https://prod01-cdn00.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2014/03/selectors-1024x768.png https://prod01-cdn00.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/20...
- zurn 12y ago
  Because the description was one sided and neglected to mention NSA's VPN related activities. Eg that they actively seek to discover and keep track of VPN users. And that traffic analysis is generally as powerful as content inspection once you have a target.
  - linkregister 12y ago
    Hmm, I didn't read that one. Can you point me to the source for that?
    - zurn 12y ago
      Sure: http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/workspace/nsa-xkeyscore-vpn-cracking-123499 http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/workspace/nsa-xkeyscore-vpn-... http://www.hacker10.com/internet-anonymity/secret-documents-show-the-nsa-is-spying-on-vpn-users/ http://www.hacker10.com/internet-anonymity/secret-documents-...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]