4 ms·

> Marijuana is a gateway-drug The gateway drug theory has been discredited, doesn't stop right-wingers bringing it out at every opportunity though.

by chilon 11y ago

golergka 11y ago
I think that it might have been sarcasm.
teddyuk 11y ago
I am not sure why people think it is perfectly fine, there are serious mental health risks associated with it. I am probably the only person on HN who thinks that legalization is a bad thing - I used to smoke a lot and strong marijuana definitely caused me issues and I really wouldn't recommend anyone else abuse it to the levels that I did.
- jnbiche 11y ago
  You had a bad reaction to some substance and so you want to make it illegal for anyone else to consume it, even if most people don't have a bad reaction to it and can moderate? And throw them in jail to rot if they don't comply? I can't understand this attitude. I had some problems because of alcohol and now abstain (and have for 10 years), but I'm not in favor of re-enacting prohibition. I'm totally fine with people drinking, it's just not a good idea for me. (btw, I don't use marijuana, either)
  - teddyuk 11y ago
    ok, I suppose what I am against is the commerialization of it - cigarrettes have made corporations like BAT significant amounts of money and killed significant amounts of people - investing in products that seek to sell them will produce companies whose aim is to sell them / create profit - that is bad when the products they are selling have harmful side effects. Make it legal / Ensure people know the risks / Do not create corporate entities who have taken investment and have a responsibility to shareholders to make money as that is bad.
- dylanjermiah 11y ago
  I don't smoke or drink, but I believe in complete legalisation. Individuals, as long as they're not hurting anyone, should decide what to do with their own bodies. The war on drugs has caused more harm than the drugs would have themselves. Countless lives lost and trillions of dollars wasted. For what? More people than ever use the substances. The 'war' has kept the cartels in business, inflated their prices and degraded the quality of the product. The war on drugs hasn't progressed anything, only destroyed.
  - rayiner 11y ago
    > I don't smoke or drink, but I believe in complete legalisation. Individuals, as long as they're not hurting anyone, should decide what to do with their own bodies. I'm curious: do you believe in a social safety net? Do you believe society has an obligation to ensure that everyone has their basic needs met? If so, how do you reconcile that belief with the idea that individuals have no reciprocal obligation to society to abstain from using products that are harmful, and which cause addictions that hurt not only the individual users, but their families and loved ones?
    - adrusi 11y ago
      If some one ends up abusing drugs to the extent that they have to rely on the social safety net, let them. No one wants to be poor, no one wants to live in the conditions imposed by the safety net. As long as the existence of a safety net doesn't encourage people to use drugs (people who start using drugs like opiates are rarely thinking of the future at the time they start) then the two aren't really related issues.
      - rayiner 11y ago
        I'm not talking about people who abuse drugs badly enough to need the social safety net. Rather, I'm positing that the social safety net arises out of society's obligation to take care of individuals, and that individuals have a reciprocal obligation to society. To me, that reciprocal obligation is inconsistent with the premise that "should decide what to do with their own bodies." If drug use compromises your ability to be a productive member of society that can support and take care of family and neighbors, then it implicates your social obligation, and society has a right to tell you that you can't do it. Of course, the fact that society has a right to make drugs illegal doesn't mean it's a good idea.
- GFischer 11y ago
  A family member was badly harmed by marijuana abuse. I still support legalization. I don't think smoking marijuana, drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco are good things, but I'd still rather have them be legal, warn others of the risk, and treat those that are harmed.
  - jnbiche 11y ago
    > I still rather have them be legal, warn others of the risk, and treat those that are harmed. Yes, long live a rational approach to drug policy. Portugal is heading in the right direction and is seeing great results.
    - caramel 11y ago
      Growing or selling cannabis is illegal in Portugal. Owning cannabis seeds is illegal in Portugal. The only thing that was changed is that the consumer of cannabis is no longer treated as a criminal. I've yet to see a good argument why the same approach wouldn't work in the US.
      - jnbiche 11y ago
        > The only thing that was changed is that the consumer of cannabis is no longer treated as a criminal. Right, which is why I say it's going in the right direction. I think full legalization will provide the most benefits to society, but decriminalization of use is a good start.
  - sedeki 11y ago
    > A family member was badly harmed by marijuana abuse. I still support legalization. Can you expand on how (s)he was harmed by marijuana?
    - GFischer 11y ago
      To be honest, it's a bit more complex, and as with all substance abuse, there are underlying causes. But the short story is he developed schizophrenia. We're not sure if cannabis was a cause or a trigger or what, but he was a heavy smoker, and he had a history of theft, etc. linked to cannabis (much as he would have if he abused alcohol or other substances. But the schizophrenia angle was stressed by the mental health professionals that took care of him). http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Cannabis-use-genetically-linked-to-schizophrenia.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Cannabis-use-geneti... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033190/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033190/
- RyanMcGreal 11y ago
  I would recommend against abusing any drug, legal or illegal. It's not a good idea to abuse alcohol, caffeine, nicotine or pseudoephedrine, all of which are quite legal. Aspirin abuse can cause intestinal bleeding, acetaminophen abuse can cause liver failure, ibuprofen abuse can cause hypertension, and so on. The question is we have to ask is: does criminalization of a drug do more good than harm? In the case of marijuana, it's abundantly clear that criminalization has caused vastly more harm than the drug itself.
- feld 11y ago
  Ahh, so you admit you abused it. Just like someone can abuse alcohol. Or prescription drugs. Or countless other things. I can kill myself by overindulging in water, but that doesn't mean it should be outlawed. Maybe education and some common sense and people can enjoy the thing they like without causing permanent damage.
- ddingus 11y ago
  Isn't the key word here abuse? Too much of a lot of things is going to cause most of us problems. Alcohol, for example? In moderation, it's an entirely different scenario. With use out in the open, we can do education just like we do for other things people use out in the open. Given that scenario, perhaps you would have used differently. I had a similar experience long ago. I used a little, liked it, then used a lot. Not good. While I am not sure I actually suffered any harm, I did see changes in what I do and how I do it. One nice thing about cannabis is a very large number of people are able to just walk away from it. Which is precisely what I did. Literally no issues. I can't say that for other things, or I can't say that as easily. The trigger was a new career dangling out there, and if I was going to go for it, I needed to prioritize and just did. Since then, some recreational uses are just fine. Very enjoyable, and being in Oregon, quite legal very soon. For some time, I've been involved in the medical program helping some people close to me with various formulations and extractions. The differences are amazing, and in a few cases, not really addressed with the body of accepted treatments out there now. I see people living fairly well now, who really didn't before. That's worth some research to optimize. Normalizing recreational uses seems a net gain good to me personally. I suspect some people will fall into bad patterns of use and may be impacted, but we can help them. A whole lot of other people will benefit by not having to make harsh choices to enjoy their lives in ways they find worth enjoying.
- vidarh 11y ago
  Presumably you were abusing it despite the fact it is criminalised. And numbers from Portugal shows no massive rise in use after decriminalisation. Even assuming your claims are right about the damage potential (which is far from obvious), it does not present a good reason for the current method of dealing with it, which in addition to clearly not preventing abuse causes substantial criminal involvement.
  - caramel 11y ago
    The difference between decriminalization and legalizing trade is significant. In Portugal drug traffickers need to spend energy just to avoid getting caught. A legal cannabis industry on the other hand will have free reign to spend vast resources on lobbying, marketing and making their product as addictive as possible, which may lead to a significant increase of use.
jnbiche 11y ago
He/she was making a play on words. Marijuana policy would be a "gateway" to a new, rational approach to drug policy.

> Marijuana is a gateway-drug The gateway drug theory has been discredited, doesn't stop right-wingers bringing it out at every opportunity though.

by chilon 11y ago

> Marijuana is a gateway-drug The gateway drug theory has been discredited, doesn't stop right-wingers bringing it out at every opportunity though.

golergka 11y ago

I think that it might have been sarcasm.

teddyuk 11y ago

I am not sure why people think it is perfectly fine, there are serious mental health risks associated with it. I am probably the only person on HN who thinks that legalization is a bad thing - I used to smoke a lot and strong marijuana definitely caused me issues and I really wouldn't recommend anyone else abuse it to the levels that I did.

jnbiche 11y ago
You had a bad reaction to some substance and so you want to make it illegal for anyone else to consume it, even if most people don't have a bad reaction to it and can moderate? And throw them in jail to rot if they don't comply? I can't understand this attitude. I had some problems because of alcohol and now abstain (and have for 10 years), but I'm not in favor of re-enacting prohibition. I'm totally fine with people drinking, it's just not a good idea for me. (btw, I don't use marijuana, either)
- teddyuk 11y ago
  ok, I suppose what I am against is the commerialization of it - cigarrettes have made corporations like BAT significant amounts of money and killed significant amounts of people - investing in products that seek to sell them will produce companies whose aim is to sell them / create profit - that is bad when the products they are selling have harmful side effects. Make it legal / Ensure people know the risks / Do not create corporate entities who have taken investment and have a responsibility to shareholders to make money as that is bad.
dylanjermiah 11y ago
I don't smoke or drink, but I believe in complete legalisation. Individuals, as long as they're not hurting anyone, should decide what to do with their own bodies. The war on drugs has caused more harm than the drugs would have themselves. Countless lives lost and trillions of dollars wasted. For what? More people than ever use the substances. The 'war' has kept the cartels in business, inflated their prices and degraded the quality of the product. The war on drugs hasn't progressed anything, only destroyed.
- rayiner 11y ago
  > I don't smoke or drink, but I believe in complete legalisation. Individuals, as long as they're not hurting anyone, should decide what to do with their own bodies. I'm curious: do you believe in a social safety net? Do you believe society has an obligation to ensure that everyone has their basic needs met? If so, how do you reconcile that belief with the idea that individuals have no reciprocal obligation to society to abstain from using products that are harmful, and which cause addictions that hurt not only the individual users, but their families and loved ones?
  - adrusi 11y ago
    If some one ends up abusing drugs to the extent that they have to rely on the social safety net, let them. No one wants to be poor, no one wants to live in the conditions imposed by the safety net. As long as the existence of a safety net doesn't encourage people to use drugs (people who start using drugs like opiates are rarely thinking of the future at the time they start) then the two aren't really related issues.
    - rayiner 11y ago
      I'm not talking about people who abuse drugs badly enough to need the social safety net. Rather, I'm positing that the social safety net arises out of society's obligation to take care of individuals, and that individuals have a reciprocal obligation to society. To me, that reciprocal obligation is inconsistent with the premise that "should decide what to do with their own bodies." If drug use compromises your ability to be a productive member of society that can support and take care of family and neighbors, then it implicates your social obligation, and society has a right to tell you that you can't do it. Of course, the fact that society has a right to make drugs illegal doesn't mean it's a good idea.
GFischer 11y ago
A family member was badly harmed by marijuana abuse. I still support legalization. I don't think smoking marijuana, drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco are good things, but I'd still rather have them be legal, warn others of the risk, and treat those that are harmed.
- jnbiche 11y ago
  > I still rather have them be legal, warn others of the risk, and treat those that are harmed. Yes, long live a rational approach to drug policy. Portugal is heading in the right direction and is seeing great results.
  - caramel 11y ago
    Growing or selling cannabis is illegal in Portugal. Owning cannabis seeds is illegal in Portugal. The only thing that was changed is that the consumer of cannabis is no longer treated as a criminal. I've yet to see a good argument why the same approach wouldn't work in the US.
    - jnbiche 11y ago
      > The only thing that was changed is that the consumer of cannabis is no longer treated as a criminal. Right, which is why I say it's going in the right direction. I think full legalization will provide the most benefits to society, but decriminalization of use is a good start.
- sedeki 11y ago
  > A family member was badly harmed by marijuana abuse. I still support legalization. Can you expand on how (s)he was harmed by marijuana?
  - GFischer 11y ago
    To be honest, it's a bit more complex, and as with all substance abuse, there are underlying causes. But the short story is he developed schizophrenia. We're not sure if cannabis was a cause or a trigger or what, but he was a heavy smoker, and he had a history of theft, etc. linked to cannabis (much as he would have if he abused alcohol or other substances. But the schizophrenia angle was stressed by the mental health professionals that took care of him). http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Cannabis-use-genetically-linked-to-schizophrenia.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Cannabis-use-geneti... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033190/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033190/
RyanMcGreal 11y ago
I would recommend against abusing any drug, legal or illegal. It's not a good idea to abuse alcohol, caffeine, nicotine or pseudoephedrine, all of which are quite legal. Aspirin abuse can cause intestinal bleeding, acetaminophen abuse can cause liver failure, ibuprofen abuse can cause hypertension, and so on. The question is we have to ask is: does criminalization of a drug do more good than harm? In the case of marijuana, it's abundantly clear that criminalization has caused vastly more harm than the drug itself.
feld 11y ago
Ahh, so you admit you abused it. Just like someone can abuse alcohol. Or prescription drugs. Or countless other things. I can kill myself by overindulging in water, but that doesn't mean it should be outlawed. Maybe education and some common sense and people can enjoy the thing they like without causing permanent damage.
ddingus 11y ago
Isn't the key word here abuse? Too much of a lot of things is going to cause most of us problems. Alcohol, for example? In moderation, it's an entirely different scenario. With use out in the open, we can do education just like we do for other things people use out in the open. Given that scenario, perhaps you would have used differently. I had a similar experience long ago. I used a little, liked it, then used a lot. Not good. While I am not sure I actually suffered any harm, I did see changes in what I do and how I do it. One nice thing about cannabis is a very large number of people are able to just walk away from it. Which is precisely what I did. Literally no issues. I can't say that for other things, or I can't say that as easily. The trigger was a new career dangling out there, and if I was going to go for it, I needed to prioritize and just did. Since then, some recreational uses are just fine. Very enjoyable, and being in Oregon, quite legal very soon. For some time, I've been involved in the medical program helping some people close to me with various formulations and extractions. The differences are amazing, and in a few cases, not really addressed with the body of accepted treatments out there now. I see people living fairly well now, who really didn't before. That's worth some research to optimize. Normalizing recreational uses seems a net gain good to me personally. I suspect some people will fall into bad patterns of use and may be impacted, but we can help them. A whole lot of other people will benefit by not having to make harsh choices to enjoy their lives in ways they find worth enjoying.
vidarh 11y ago
Presumably you were abusing it despite the fact it is criminalised. And numbers from Portugal shows no massive rise in use after decriminalisation. Even assuming your claims are right about the damage potential (which is far from obvious), it does not present a good reason for the current method of dealing with it, which in addition to clearly not preventing abuse causes substantial criminal involvement.
- caramel 11y ago
  The difference between decriminalization and legalizing trade is significant. In Portugal drug traffickers need to spend energy just to avoid getting caught. A legal cannabis industry on the other hand will have free reign to spend vast resources on lobbying, marketing and making their product as addictive as possible, which may lead to a significant increase of use.

jnbiche 11y ago

He/she was making a play on words. Marijuana policy would be a "gateway" to a new, rational approach to drug policy.