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Would you rather a corrupt politician than made the country rich (Haughey, Putin) or an honest politician that made the country poor (Mugabe)?

bayesianhorse 11y ago
I think these examples are particularly well chosen. Putin and Mugabe are quasi-dictators running authoritarian states, and I don't even know the slightest bit about Haughey. And Russia is arguably having quite a bit of trouble, economically, not even just because of the sanctions but because the general corruption in the country just doesn't allow for a sufficient retooling of the Russian economy. And the sanctions are a direct consequence of Putin not wanting to play by the rules and now being excluded from the game.
- hessenwolf 11y ago
  I think that Putin is the band-aid Russian needed ten years ago, but gone mouldy for a few years now. Mugabe, yes, initially wanted to redistribute the land wonderfully... didn't totally think that one through. I just mean to say that integrity and competence are not analogues.
  - bayesianhorse 11y ago
    Russia didn't need an authoritarian state 10 years ago and didn't need one now. Putin never achieved anything without cutting down his opposition.
    - hessenwolf 11y ago
      How familiar with Russia are you, by the way? Maybe if we trade backgrounds, the conversation could proceed more interestingly... My contacts are mostly through my wife, so I hear it from St. Petersburg, North Ossetia, Georgia, and the Ukraine, with a slightly over-representative Jewish tint. I am none of the aforenamed.
mercurial 11y ago
You must be thinking of the Mugabe of 30 years ago. Between the political violence, the graft and the cronyism, he is about as far from honest as he could be.
saiya-jin 11y ago
Please describe how Putin made Russia rich. It's like saying Stalin won 2nd world war. If Russia is richer, it's DESPITE having Putin and his KGB komrades at steering wheel.
- hessenwolf 11y ago
  Do you remember pre-Putin? It was an effing disaster.
  - bayesianhorse 11y ago
    Difficult assessment. The Soviet economy was collapsing when the soviet union broke up. It's hard to tell what Jelzin did right and wrong, especially compared to Putin. What Putin certainly did was to turn Russia into an authoritarian state, run mostly by ex-KGB officers. What he didn't do was to make the society more open and retool and revitalize the economy. He also did hardly anything against corruption which didn't directly affect is ability to rule.
father_of_two 11y ago
Mugabe honest?!

bayesianhorse 11y ago

I think these examples are particularly well chosen. Putin and Mugabe are quasi-dictators running authoritarian states, and I don't even know the slightest bit about Haughey. And Russia is arguably having quite a bit of trouble, economically, not even just because of the sanctions but because the general corruption in the country just doesn't allow for a sufficient retooling of the Russian economy. And the sanctions are a direct consequence of Putin not wanting to play by the rules and now being excluded from the game.

hessenwolf 11y ago
I think that Putin is the band-aid Russian needed ten years ago, but gone mouldy for a few years now. Mugabe, yes, initially wanted to redistribute the land wonderfully... didn't totally think that one through. I just mean to say that integrity and competence are not analogues.
- bayesianhorse 11y ago
  Russia didn't need an authoritarian state 10 years ago and didn't need one now. Putin never achieved anything without cutting down his opposition.
  - hessenwolf 11y ago
    How familiar with Russia are you, by the way? Maybe if we trade backgrounds, the conversation could proceed more interestingly... My contacts are mostly through my wife, so I hear it from St. Petersburg, North Ossetia, Georgia, and the Ukraine, with a slightly over-representative Jewish tint. I am none of the aforenamed.

mercurial 11y ago

You must be thinking of the Mugabe of 30 years ago. Between the political violence, the graft and the cronyism, he is about as far from honest as he could be.

saiya-jin 11y ago

Please describe how Putin made Russia rich. It's like saying Stalin won 2nd world war. If Russia is richer, it's DESPITE having Putin and his KGB komrades at steering wheel.

hessenwolf 11y ago
Do you remember pre-Putin? It was an effing disaster.
- bayesianhorse 11y ago
  Difficult assessment. The Soviet economy was collapsing when the soviet union broke up. It's hard to tell what Jelzin did right and wrong, especially compared to Putin. What Putin certainly did was to turn Russia into an authoritarian state, run mostly by ex-KGB officers. What he didn't do was to make the society more open and retool and revitalize the economy. He also did hardly anything against corruption which didn't directly affect is ability to rule.

father_of_two 11y ago

Mugabe honest?!