4 ms·

Do you have any proof for this bold claim? I will try to prove that quite the opposite is true: Germany has a very active civil society and privacy ("Datenschut

by mcbetz 11y ago

Do you have any proof for this bold claim? I will try to prove that quite the opposite is true: Germany has a very active civil society and privacy ("Datenschutz") and transparency is on the agenda not only of the opposition party "Die Grünen" and the small "Piratenpartei", but also by organizations such as Chaos Computer Club, Netzpolitik.org and Verbraucherzentrale. There have been huge demonstrations, "Freiheit statt Angst" (Freedom instead of fear), with thousands demonstrating in Berlin and elsewhere. You can find all material on their website, also in English - http://freiheitstattangst.de/aufruf/ http://freiheitstattangst.de/aufruf/

kpcyrd 11y ago
> But they don't have my password to access my email? > I have nothing to hide > Why do you run a tor relay? Somebody who needs that much privacy obviously has something bad going on. Of course there are exceptions who actually care about that stuff, but I'm afraid most don't or have no idea what they're doing. Source: CDU is still the strongest party.
- mcbetz 11y ago
  The exception is institutionalized: Der Verbraucherschutz and the various Datenschutzbeauftragte keep complaining whenever the ruling parties try to weaken the privacy laws. And the outrage about password leaks and other data security related news in all publications, be them more right-leaning like the FAZ or Welt, or left-leaning, such as TAZ, Spiegel or Frankfurter Rundschua, prove, that there is consciousness and interest. Media does not write about random things. They write for their audience. Hence there must be many people who care. Pointing to CDU is also not very convincing. Despite having the weakest position among all parties, they still support privacy issues, especially due to their close relations with German companies. And yes, those care a lot about privacy. There is massive outrage about the latest relevations - Airbus already declared they would sue Germany over this. See here for CDU's privacy claims: https://www.tagesschau.de/europawahl/parteien_und_programme/programmvergleich-datenschutz106.html https://www.tagesschau.de/europawahl/parteien_und_programme/... (DE)
thesimon 11y ago
Some people care about it, yes. But obviously only a small percentage, the general public doesn't care as long as Merkel is in office and says nothing to worry about. Just like this Simpsons quote Homer: "Lisa, the whole reason we have elected officials is so we don't have to think all the time. Just like that rain forest scare a few years back. Our officials saw there was a problem and they fixed it, didn't they?" Stats for public opinion: http://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/261897/umfrage/umfrage-zur-abhoeraffaere/ http://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/261897/umfrage... 55% even like the activies of the NSA et al.
- mcbetz 11y ago
  You are obviously misusing the statistic. First off, the question that 55% answered positively was not whether they liked the NSA, but whether "in order to prevent terror attacks, you have to live with mass spy activities". That is shameless framing because you give a negative consequence no one wants (terror attacks). It is not too surprising that a majority answers yes to the solution the interviewer proposes. But would such a majority of interviewees come up with the solution themselves? I highly doubt it. Just ask any passerby: "Please finish this sentence: 'In order to prevent terror attacks, spying ...'. Additionally, the very same interviewees are surprised just how much Germany has been spyed on (61%). Note the framing here again. Here you have no evaluation, but just a very weak sensation ("surprised"). The interviewer could also have asked: "Do you like how much the NSA spied on Germany?" - and I bet the answer would have been clear. And again, there are very few topics that we think the public cares about (taxes, pension) and again, how do we notice they might care? Media. As with privacy. As with immigration. As with any other political topic.

by mcbetz 11y ago

kpcyrd 11y ago

> But they don't have my password to access my email? > I have nothing to hide > Why do you run a tor relay? Somebody who needs that much privacy obviously has something bad going on. Of course there are exceptions who actually care about that stuff, but I'm afraid most don't or have no idea what they're doing. Source: CDU is still the strongest party.

mcbetz 11y ago
The exception is institutionalized: Der Verbraucherschutz and the various Datenschutzbeauftragte keep complaining whenever the ruling parties try to weaken the privacy laws. And the outrage about password leaks and other data security related news in all publications, be them more right-leaning like the FAZ or Welt, or left-leaning, such as TAZ, Spiegel or Frankfurter Rundschua, prove, that there is consciousness and interest. Media does not write about random things. They write for their audience. Hence there must be many people who care. Pointing to CDU is also not very convincing. Despite having the weakest position among all parties, they still support privacy issues, especially due to their close relations with German companies. And yes, those care a lot about privacy. There is massive outrage about the latest relevations - Airbus already declared they would sue Germany over this. See here for CDU's privacy claims: https://www.tagesschau.de/europawahl/parteien_und_programme/programmvergleich-datenschutz106.html https://www.tagesschau.de/europawahl/parteien_und_programme/... (DE)

thesimon 11y ago

Some people care about it, yes. But obviously only a small percentage, the general public doesn't care as long as Merkel is in office and says nothing to worry about. Just like this Simpsons quote Homer: "Lisa, the whole reason we have elected officials is so we don't have to think all the time. Just like that rain forest scare a few years back. Our officials saw there was a problem and they fixed it, didn't they?" Stats for public opinion: http://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/261897/umfrage/umfrage-zur-abhoeraffaere/ http://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/261897/umfrage... 55% even like the activies of the NSA et al.

mcbetz 11y ago
You are obviously misusing the statistic. First off, the question that 55% answered positively was not whether they liked the NSA, but whether "in order to prevent terror attacks, you have to live with mass spy activities". That is shameless framing because you give a negative consequence no one wants (terror attacks). It is not too surprising that a majority answers yes to the solution the interviewer proposes. But would such a majority of interviewees come up with the solution themselves? I highly doubt it. Just ask any passerby: "Please finish this sentence: 'In order to prevent terror attacks, spying ...'. Additionally, the very same interviewees are surprised just how much Germany has been spyed on (61%). Note the framing here again. Here you have no evaluation, but just a very weak sensation ("surprised"). The interviewer could also have asked: "Do you like how much the NSA spied on Germany?" - and I bet the answer would have been clear. And again, there are very few topics that we think the public cares about (taxes, pension) and again, how do we notice they might care? Media. As with privacy. As with immigration. As with any other political topic.