4 ms·

Perlin Noise is a cheap way to get repeatable and smooth randomness but should just be one tool in a world generation toolbox. I think most infinite worlds quit

Perlin Noise is a cheap way to get repeatable and smooth randomness but should just be one tool in a world generation toolbox. I think most infinite worlds quite quickly collapse in 'interestingness' because after travelling for a short while in any direction you quickly see that there is nothing new out there. So, instead of creating infinite worlds I'd like to see a lot more focus on procedurally-generating very interesting finite worlds. For games with a simple 2d tile-based grid, we then don't have to limit ourselves to just crafting noise-based functions -- as we can create the entire world at once. Games like Dwarf Fortress, Spelunky, Nethack, Terraria, etc., all follow this approach, and I'm trying to do the same in my own game, Moonman. So get our your IDEs and start creating house, face, forest, creature, item, and cloud generators. :)

huuu 11y ago
The game FUEL is a great example. The game covers 14,400 km² but doesn't repeat itself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_(video_game) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_(video_game)
BFay 11y ago
I agree that using one technique for an infinite world is probably going to get boring pretty quickly, and you can probably get more leverage out of a finite world. But even with an infinite landscape, I think you could improve the variety by using a generator at different scopes - if your landscape is just one constant type of terrain, like a field, things will get boring. You might have a wide variety of rivers and trees, but the basic idea is the same. But if you have another generator controlling the terrain type - going between plains, desert, mountains, etc., that would be really interesting. At the small scope, variation in trees and water is still the same level of change, but there is also a larger scope that changes the overall feel at a much larger radius.
- eigenbom 11y ago
  Oh definitely. Minecraft does this in a simple but effective way. Though the interestingness of the landscape lasts until you've seen a few instances of each type, and then you have a model of the system in your mind, because it's just a few simple functions composed together. There is a lot of fun stuff to do so the terrain is only just the backdrop to that fun. Instead of {noise(x,y)>0.5 = desert} let's simulate eons of weather, geological events, floods, and then feed that back into the lore of the game world. Dwarf Fortress is one of the few games I'm aware of that attempts this level of world generation. Unfortunately it's quite impenetrable as a game, due to its complexity.
MacDegger 11y ago
Heh. I agree, and I'm doing the same thing for my game. As for Perlin noise, check out Simplex noise. It's what Perlin designed AFTER Perlin noise. I use 4D Simplex fractals to create my game world which tiles seamlessly when scrolling up/down as well as left/right. And I'm filling the world with random-but-connected cities, factions etc. That's where interesting emergent gameplay comes from. BTW, I have a few writeups (quite technical) on the correct implementation of Simplex noise on spiralcode.wordpress.com
- shawn42 11y ago
  Nice! I really like the art style; but isn't >2D Simplex noise patented?

huuu 11y ago

The game FUEL is a great example. The game covers 14,400 km² but doesn't repeat itself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_(video_game) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_(video_game)

BFay 11y ago

I agree that using one technique for an infinite world is probably going to get boring pretty quickly, and you can probably get more leverage out of a finite world. But even with an infinite landscape, I think you could improve the variety by using a generator at different scopes - if your landscape is just one constant type of terrain, like a field, things will get boring. You might have a wide variety of rivers and trees, but the basic idea is the same. But if you have another generator controlling the terrain type - going between plains, desert, mountains, etc., that would be really interesting. At the small scope, variation in trees and water is still the same level of change, but there is also a larger scope that changes the overall feel at a much larger radius.

eigenbom 11y ago
Oh definitely. Minecraft does this in a simple but effective way. Though the interestingness of the landscape lasts until you've seen a few instances of each type, and then you have a model of the system in your mind, because it's just a few simple functions composed together. There is a lot of fun stuff to do so the terrain is only just the backdrop to that fun. Instead of {noise(x,y)>0.5 = desert} let's simulate eons of weather, geological events, floods, and then feed that back into the lore of the game world. Dwarf Fortress is one of the few games I'm aware of that attempts this level of world generation. Unfortunately it's quite impenetrable as a game, due to its complexity.

MacDegger 11y ago

Heh. I agree, and I'm doing the same thing for my game. As for Perlin noise, check out Simplex noise. It's what Perlin designed AFTER Perlin noise. I use 4D Simplex fractals to create my game world which tiles seamlessly when scrolling up/down as well as left/right. And I'm filling the world with random-but-connected cities, factions etc. That's where interesting emergent gameplay comes from. BTW, I have a few writeups (quite technical) on the correct implementation of Simplex noise on spiralcode.wordpress.com

shawn42 11y ago
Nice! I really like the art style; but isn't >2D Simplex noise patented?