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Police officers in the United States, as well as in Europe are trained to shoot for the center of mass when engaging an armed attacker. Do you know why? Google

by rcurry 11y ago

Police officers in the United States, as well as in Europe are trained to shoot for the center of mass when engaging an armed attacker. Do you know why? Google "Tueller Drill" for an understanding of just how dangerous someone with a knife is to an officer - at 21 feet away, that person can close the distance and kill the officer in 1.5 seconds.

swombat 11y ago
Most people with knives aren't Bruce Lee. Some evaluation of the actual danger the person poses is necessary. A man standing idly with a knife is not the same as some sort of ninja commando running towards you at full speed. From inevitably watching a bunch of videos recently of unlucky black people being shot by racist cops, the US police definitely does not seem to take the attitude of the victim into consideration when deciding to shoot - half of those guys are running away from the policeman. How fast can someone kill you with a knife if they're running away from you as fast as they can?
- kelukelugames 11y ago
  Actually rcurry is right. If Mythbusters is correct then the knife wielder always wins if they are within 20 feet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
  - swombat 11y ago
    rcurry is right if the knife wielder is within 20 feet AND the gun holder has their gun holstered, uncocked, with the safety still on. Why not also do a test where the officer has to front-load the powder into their musket and put a bullet in and arm the gun? Have you seen those videos? The policemen are the ones who approach the knife wielder, not the other way around! They have the power to set the distance and to prepare themselves if they're going to close the distance! They're not hapless policemen standing idly by, suddenly assaulted by a knife wielder who surprise-jumps out of a doorway within 20 feet. That's a totally different situation. What's more likely to be happening in a real situation, based again on all those countless snuff films floating around the internet, is that the officers have the safety off, have their hand on the gun, or even have the gun out of the holster in their hand, long before the 20-feet distance is reached. That reduces the dangerous distance pretty significantly I would think. So again, my point totally stands: unless the victim (I refuse to call them an attacker when they're clearly the one who always dies in practice when these scenarios happen, especially if they're black) is actually actively moving towards the policeman, there is no reason for the policeman to shoot their gun at a victim that's standing 20 feet away. If they feel the victim is a threat, then unholster the gun, take off the safety, cock the gun, and be ready to shoot, but maintain your distance. It totally refuse that the only reasonable course of action after you deliberately approach a knife wielder is to shoot them when you get them within your 20-foot radius. That's murder, pure and simple.
vacri 11y ago
No need to google Tueller Drill; it's mentioned in the main article, with quotes from Tueller about how his drill has been overused and stretched beyond it's intent. Your comment is an example of such a stretching - the Tueller Drill is saying that a cop needs to be aware that they're in potential danger at 21 feet, not that you should shoot for the centre off mass. Shooting for the easiest, most incapacitating target is the result of policy designed to keep your emergency workers safe. Nothing to do with the Tueller Drill - for example, if the criminal was about to shoot a cop, the target would still be the torso, regardless of whether they were within 21 feet or not.
- rcurry 11y ago
  I wasn't commenting on the article, but rather replying to another user's post - who wondered why officers don't shoot for the legs when someone with a knife runs at them.

by rcurry 11y ago

swombat 11y ago

Most people with knives aren't Bruce Lee. Some evaluation of the actual danger the person poses is necessary. A man standing idly with a knife is not the same as some sort of ninja commando running towards you at full speed. From inevitably watching a bunch of videos recently of unlucky black people being shot by racist cops, the US police definitely does not seem to take the attitude of the victim into consideration when deciding to shoot - half of those guys are running away from the policeman. How fast can someone kill you with a knife if they're running away from you as fast as they can?

kelukelugames 11y ago
Actually rcurry is right. If Mythbusters is correct then the knife wielder always wins if they are within 20 feet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
- swombat 11y ago
  rcurry is right if the knife wielder is within 20 feet AND the gun holder has their gun holstered, uncocked, with the safety still on. Why not also do a test where the officer has to front-load the powder into their musket and put a bullet in and arm the gun? Have you seen those videos? The policemen are the ones who approach the knife wielder, not the other way around! They have the power to set the distance and to prepare themselves if they're going to close the distance! They're not hapless policemen standing idly by, suddenly assaulted by a knife wielder who surprise-jumps out of a doorway within 20 feet. That's a totally different situation. What's more likely to be happening in a real situation, based again on all those countless snuff films floating around the internet, is that the officers have the safety off, have their hand on the gun, or even have the gun out of the holster in their hand, long before the 20-feet distance is reached. That reduces the dangerous distance pretty significantly I would think. So again, my point totally stands: unless the victim (I refuse to call them an attacker when they're clearly the one who always dies in practice when these scenarios happen, especially if they're black) is actually actively moving towards the policeman, there is no reason for the policeman to shoot their gun at a victim that's standing 20 feet away. If they feel the victim is a threat, then unholster the gun, take off the safety, cock the gun, and be ready to shoot, but maintain your distance. It totally refuse that the only reasonable course of action after you deliberately approach a knife wielder is to shoot them when you get them within your 20-foot radius. That's murder, pure and simple.

vacri 11y ago

No need to google Tueller Drill; it's mentioned in the main article, with quotes from Tueller about how his drill has been overused and stretched beyond it's intent. Your comment is an example of such a stretching - the Tueller Drill is saying that a cop needs to be aware that they're in potential danger at 21 feet, not that you should shoot for the centre off mass. Shooting for the easiest, most incapacitating target is the result of policy designed to keep your emergency workers safe. Nothing to do with the Tueller Drill - for example, if the criminal was about to shoot a cop, the target would still be the torso, regardless of whether they were within 21 feet or not.

rcurry 11y ago
I wasn't commenting on the article, but rather replying to another user's post - who wondered why officers don't shoot for the legs when someone with a knife runs at them.