6 ms·

One thing I could not quite understand, is why people stay in poor area with little to no opportunities? Some people may want to stay close to family and frien

One thing I could not quite understand, is why people stay in poor area with little to no opportunities? Some people may want to stay close to family and friends, especially when they need their support. That is understandable, but then it's their own choice, and they are probably content about it. For those who are unhappy about their situations, why don't they just move?

jsat 11y ago
It costs money to move. If you're poor, it's unlikely that you have the resources to move to a place that's better. Many poor people don't have the time to research the optimal county in which to live either. They probably have more pressing issues like this month's rent.
- squidbot 11y ago
  It's not just the cost of moving either. If you are poor your job is not likely to pay you when you aren't there, and jobs you would be looking at in the new location aren't flying you out for an interview. Chances are you'd be without any income for quite a while. Even if you aren't living completely paycheck to paycheck, that gap in time will likely eat up any money you might have put aside for rental deposits, utility hook up, etc. Anecdotal, but, I do know people who have moved because of the promise of work elsewhere. Some wound up benefiting and turning their life around. Some wound up on the street. These people were all young with no children. As a parent, it would be very difficult for me to make the decision to move somewhere on a gamble that things would turn out ok. I'd honestly probably choose to continue to barely scrape by, but still feed my kids and keep a roof over their heads than I would gamble that we become homeless. I'm glad I "won the life lottery" and don't have to make these kinds of choices for my family. I have a lot of compassion for those who do.
hkmurakami 11y ago
Support networks are pretty important, especially if you are financially vulnerable.
JoeAltmaier 11y ago
All those poor people in rural Africa just stay there. Why don't they just move? Its got to do with being comfortable with your place in society, and feeling safe to have some position at all. Its risky to leap into a new place, with new rules. Turn it on its head: would you move to a poor, rural area? Why not? Partly because you wouldn't know how to survive there.
- markvdb 11y ago
  Poor people in rural Africa do move... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/03/thousands-migrants-rescue-med-weekend-operations-libya-italy-mediterranean http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/03/thousands-migra...
  - cowsandmilk 11y ago
    fleeing war and persecution is different than moving due to poverty.
- paulhauggis 11y ago
  "All those poor people in rural Africa just stay there. Why don't they just move?" The government is also to blame in places like Africa. How can you expect to leave or even prosper when government officials, who are supposed to protect you, are nothing more than criminals?
muhfuhkuh 11y ago
If you've ever been poor (I don't mean "I can't afford the new iPhone" poor, but rather "I have to light candles or not flush the toilet until the 15th when I get my check" poor), then you'd know you can't move if you don't have money. Where would you move to? With what capital to move out? What about breaking your lease (which obviously you pay rent because poor people don't own anythign, you're too poor), and the financial ramifications therof? Now you're "sent to collections" and "final notice red envelope" poor, on top of everything else. That poor.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Well, that's the kind of thinking that ties people down. In fact, if you have no credit rating then you can just hitchhike to someplace better, or catch a ride with a friend, or start walking. Right? Nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
  - muhfuhkuh 11y ago
    What kind of talk is that? "Just walk away"? To what, exactly? Homelessness? So, now you're poor, no job, AND homeless. That's not "the kind of thinking" that's needed, either. Let's all agree that education is the key here, right? Bootstraps and "teaching them to fish", right? Well, how are you going to get anyone to teach in the poor areas when it's losing people to "hitchhike to someplace better"? So, the key to improving the shitty and fraud-filled situation in, say, West Virginia or Alabama, where poverty is like a 1 out of 4 situation, is to leave by foot?
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      You can move to Alabama if you think that's such a good idea. But I'm guessing its easier to just ask those folks to stay. If you're young and ambitious, you can go anywhere, try anything. Tent in the state park while you interview. Visit the food bank. A poor job in a wealthy area is yards better than a poor job in a poor area. The services are better to start with.
- paulhauggis 11y ago
dragonwriter 11y ago
> One thing I could not quite understand, is why people stay in poor area with little to no opportunities? Because moving to a new area isn't free. > Some people may want to stay close to family and friends, especially when they need their support. That is understandable, but then it's their own choice, and they are probably content about it. Recognizing that preserving a support network that certainly exists along with the poor conditions that certainly exists is likely the best choice available, even though moving might provide slightly better odds of material improvement but with a weaker support network in the highly-likely event of poor outcomes does not equal being content with the poor set of choices available. > For those who are unhappy about their situations, why don't they just move? The ones who can afford to (often because, even if poor, they have stronger or more geographically diverse support networks, or they are lucky enough to secure, rather than merely speculate on the chance of, better circumstances elsewhere before moving) do, which is one reason the places with poor opportunities go into a downward spiral.
JPKab 11y ago
Feel free to go into the site and search for "Northampton County, Virginia". The site points out that it's one of the worst counties in the country to be either poor or middle income. I spent a big chunk of my childhood there, and attended the horrific public schools there. I was one of the very lucky ones, and I'm now living in an affluent suburban community, watching my son attend the kinds of schools that I'm assuming you got to attend. (I'm assuming this by your comment, which shows someone who almost certainly doesn't have a deep understanding of poverty or areas with high poverty.) Notice that the site has a median rent listed for this county of a little over $300. Think about that: You are somebody who lives in a place with a $300 rent, which means that a given landlord, when presented with the income of the area's renters, can only fill a unit if they charge $300 a month. Yes, everyone is that poor. Work is few and far between, incomes are very low, and savings are non-existent. How can you save when you can barely get by? So without savings, how do you finance a move to a place? How do you pay a security deposit that is, by itself, triple your current rent, plus the first month's rent, assuming you landed a job in this richer area? The education offered sucks, period. I went to college on a scholarship, and I was completely unprepared for my classes compared to the other students. I had to work over 30 hours a week while in engineering school to pay my rent/food/books/etc, which put me at a disadvantage compared to my peers. On top of that, I didn't have the knowledge base my peers had. When I graduated high school in 1999, my school only had 4 computers with internet connections for a student body of roughly 900. This is typical of poor, rural schools. How could I have learned to program like my peers from the DC suburbs? Your characterization that these people have made a choice to not move suggests that they ever had a choice to begin with. Most of them don't, and your comment, to people like me who had to claw ourselves out of the trap, smacks of self-righteousness and contempt.
- fuzzywalrus 11y ago
  Also, simply moving doubtfully would improve the current generation's poverty level, as they'd still be under-educated to compete with the affluent labor groups and still relegated to the same to same remedial jobs even if the parent(s) are aware moving would potentially increase their child's chances for success, potentially increasing their relative poverty. Also, let us not underestimate the value of support networks from friends and family, living in an area may include aid for child care (grandparents/aunts/uncles/etc) and so forth.
muddyrivers 11y ago
There was such an emperor in China in A.D. 209~307. The country was suffering a devastating famine one year, and a large number of people starved to death. When the emperor was reported the news that people had no rice, no wheat, no millet, to feed themselves and starved to death, he asked, "why don't they eat meat?".
jlarocco 11y ago
Are you serious? That's the most ignorant thing I've heard in a while. When you're too poor to fill your gas tank, how do you afford to move across country to an area with more opportunity? When you're living with room mates, and still barely able to make your rent, how do you get a new place some where else? Obviously you're not poor, but don't stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not a problem. If it were that easy to fix being poor, it would have been solved ages ago.

jsat 11y ago

It costs money to move. If you're poor, it's unlikely that you have the resources to move to a place that's better. Many poor people don't have the time to research the optimal county in which to live either. They probably have more pressing issues like this month's rent.

squidbot 11y ago
It's not just the cost of moving either. If you are poor your job is not likely to pay you when you aren't there, and jobs you would be looking at in the new location aren't flying you out for an interview. Chances are you'd be without any income for quite a while. Even if you aren't living completely paycheck to paycheck, that gap in time will likely eat up any money you might have put aside for rental deposits, utility hook up, etc. Anecdotal, but, I do know people who have moved because of the promise of work elsewhere. Some wound up benefiting and turning their life around. Some wound up on the street. These people were all young with no children. As a parent, it would be very difficult for me to make the decision to move somewhere on a gamble that things would turn out ok. I'd honestly probably choose to continue to barely scrape by, but still feed my kids and keep a roof over their heads than I would gamble that we become homeless. I'm glad I "won the life lottery" and don't have to make these kinds of choices for my family. I have a lot of compassion for those who do.

hkmurakami 11y ago

Support networks are pretty important, especially if you are financially vulnerable.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

All those poor people in rural Africa just stay there. Why don't they just move? Its got to do with being comfortable with your place in society, and feeling safe to have some position at all. Its risky to leap into a new place, with new rules. Turn it on its head: would you move to a poor, rural area? Why not? Partly because you wouldn't know how to survive there.

markvdb 11y ago
Poor people in rural Africa do move... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/03/thousands-migrants-rescue-med-weekend-operations-libya-italy-mediterranean http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/03/thousands-migra...
- cowsandmilk 11y ago
  fleeing war and persecution is different than moving due to poverty.
paulhauggis 11y ago
"All those poor people in rural Africa just stay there. Why don't they just move?" The government is also to blame in places like Africa. How can you expect to leave or even prosper when government officials, who are supposed to protect you, are nothing more than criminals?

muhfuhkuh 11y ago

If you've ever been poor (I don't mean "I can't afford the new iPhone" poor, but rather "I have to light candles or not flush the toilet until the 15th when I get my check" poor), then you'd know you can't move if you don't have money. Where would you move to? With what capital to move out? What about breaking your lease (which obviously you pay rent because poor people don't own anythign, you're too poor), and the financial ramifications therof? Now you're "sent to collections" and "final notice red envelope" poor, on top of everything else. That poor.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
Well, that's the kind of thinking that ties people down. In fact, if you have no credit rating then you can just hitchhike to someplace better, or catch a ride with a friend, or start walking. Right? Nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
- muhfuhkuh 11y ago
  What kind of talk is that? "Just walk away"? To what, exactly? Homelessness? So, now you're poor, no job, AND homeless. That's not "the kind of thinking" that's needed, either. Let's all agree that education is the key here, right? Bootstraps and "teaching them to fish", right? Well, how are you going to get anyone to teach in the poor areas when it's losing people to "hitchhike to someplace better"? So, the key to improving the shitty and fraud-filled situation in, say, West Virginia or Alabama, where poverty is like a 1 out of 4 situation, is to leave by foot?
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    You can move to Alabama if you think that's such a good idea. But I'm guessing its easier to just ask those folks to stay. If you're young and ambitious, you can go anywhere, try anything. Tent in the state park while you interview. Visit the food bank. A poor job in a wealthy area is yards better than a poor job in a poor area. The services are better to start with.
paulhauggis 11y ago

dragonwriter 11y ago

> One thing I could not quite understand, is why people stay in poor area with little to no opportunities? Because moving to a new area isn't free. > Some people may want to stay close to family and friends, especially when they need their support. That is understandable, but then it's their own choice, and they are probably content about it. Recognizing that preserving a support network that certainly exists along with the poor conditions that certainly exists is likely the best choice available, even though moving might provide slightly better odds of material improvement but with a weaker support network in the highly-likely event of poor outcomes does not equal being content with the poor set of choices available. > For those who are unhappy about their situations, why don't they just move? The ones who can afford to (often because, even if poor, they have stronger or more geographically diverse support networks, or they are lucky enough to secure, rather than merely speculate on the chance of, better circumstances elsewhere before moving) do, which is one reason the places with poor opportunities go into a downward spiral.

JPKab 11y ago

Feel free to go into the site and search for "Northampton County, Virginia". The site points out that it's one of the worst counties in the country to be either poor or middle income. I spent a big chunk of my childhood there, and attended the horrific public schools there. I was one of the very lucky ones, and I'm now living in an affluent suburban community, watching my son attend the kinds of schools that I'm assuming you got to attend. (I'm assuming this by your comment, which shows someone who almost certainly doesn't have a deep understanding of poverty or areas with high poverty.) Notice that the site has a median rent listed for this county of a little over $300. Think about that: You are somebody who lives in a place with a $300 rent, which means that a given landlord, when presented with the income of the area's renters, can only fill a unit if they charge $300 a month. Yes, everyone is that poor. Work is few and far between, incomes are very low, and savings are non-existent. How can you save when you can barely get by? So without savings, how do you finance a move to a place? How do you pay a security deposit that is, by itself, triple your current rent, plus the first month's rent, assuming you landed a job in this richer area? The education offered sucks, period. I went to college on a scholarship, and I was completely unprepared for my classes compared to the other students. I had to work over 30 hours a week while in engineering school to pay my rent/food/books/etc, which put me at a disadvantage compared to my peers. On top of that, I didn't have the knowledge base my peers had. When I graduated high school in 1999, my school only had 4 computers with internet connections for a student body of roughly 900. This is typical of poor, rural schools. How could I have learned to program like my peers from the DC suburbs? Your characterization that these people have made a choice to not move suggests that they ever had a choice to begin with. Most of them don't, and your comment, to people like me who had to claw ourselves out of the trap, smacks of self-righteousness and contempt.

fuzzywalrus 11y ago
Also, simply moving doubtfully would improve the current generation's poverty level, as they'd still be under-educated to compete with the affluent labor groups and still relegated to the same to same remedial jobs even if the parent(s) are aware moving would potentially increase their child's chances for success, potentially increasing their relative poverty. Also, let us not underestimate the value of support networks from friends and family, living in an area may include aid for child care (grandparents/aunts/uncles/etc) and so forth.

muddyrivers 11y ago

There was such an emperor in China in A.D. 209~307. The country was suffering a devastating famine one year, and a large number of people starved to death. When the emperor was reported the news that people had no rice, no wheat, no millet, to feed themselves and starved to death, he asked, "why don't they eat meat?".

jlarocco 11y ago

Are you serious? That's the most ignorant thing I've heard in a while. When you're too poor to fill your gas tank, how do you afford to move across country to an area with more opportunity? When you're living with room mates, and still barely able to make your rent, how do you get a new place some where else? Obviously you're not poor, but don't stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not a problem. If it were that easy to fix being poor, it would have been solved ages ago.