8 ms·

Manifold.js – Create mobile apps from websites

178 points by mpalme 11y ago

clarle 11y ago
From what they're saying in the "Test" section of the Deploy documentation (http://www.manifoldjs.com/deploy http://www.manifoldjs.com/deploy), it seems that it just wraps your website in a WebView? This is great from a developer perspective, but I'm not sure if the App Store review process would allow doing something like that.
- rentnorove 11y ago
  It looks like it's using cordova underneath (see 'community' page), so presumably there will be support for per-platform configuration of icons etc.
  - DaveVoyles 11y ago
    Disclosure: I work for Microsoft You can always go in and edit the Cordova project that ManifoldJS returns and add your own images for icons and such. Not sure if ManifoldJS currently supports this out of the box just yet, though.
- evo_9 11y ago
  Stuffing webpages into a WebView and then selling it on the App Store has been standard fair for years (PhoneGap popularized this method 4+ years ago now).
- gavinpc 11y ago
  I wondered the same thing when submitting a Cordova app to Apple, which is about 2% wrapping and 98% web site. Just this morning it got through the review process with no problems, so... data point! That said, we did take pains beforehand to make the "web site" behave like an app: responsive, (mostly) single page, swipe support, and tested across all devices.
  - themodelplumber 11y ago
    Congratulations, any way we can take a look at it?
    - gavinpc 11y ago
      Sure! Took a little while for it to post.[0] This Android variant [1] also uses Crosswalk, which shields you from differences in the stock WebView. [0] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tenjin-technology-sampler/id983289128 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tenjin-technology-sampler/id... [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ie.tenjin.ati https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ie.tenjin.ati
      - themodelplumber 11y ago
        Cool! Thanks for sharing.
  - nerdb4itwascool 11y ago
    My team just got a Cordova app through the apple review process as of yesterday. So, data point #2! I think as long as you try to adhere to Apple's app review guidelines it doesn't matter if you used Cordova or developed natively
- davidbanham 11y ago
  Apple are fine with Cordova apps in the store. We have a few. They're even fine with those apps being updated without resubmitting.
rememberlenny 11y ago
Tried to run it and didnt get any results. I was getting warnings for missing image cuts.
- nodejsisbest 11y ago
  mis-read that as cunts.
neil_s 11y ago
Can someone explain like I'm 5, why Manifold is better than the Cordova 'shim' on platforms that support it?
- felixrieseberg 11y ago
  Copying my comment from below. Disclaimer: I work for John Shewchuck / Microsoft. W3C is working on Web App Manifests (http://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/ http://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/), allowing websites to declare app-like properties. ManifoldJS uses that standard for those platforms that support it, but falls back to Cordova for those who don't. Cordova is awesome, but the W3C also considers work done at Mozilla (Firefox Open Web Apps), Google (Chrome Hosted Apps) and stuff we did (Windows 8 had local web apps, Windows 10 extends over to hosted web apps).
  - Touche 11y ago
    Sadly it's all the more common nowadays to see everyone on board a new web standard... except for Apple.
  - jetm9 11y ago
    can i use just upload manifest generated by manifold and upload into adobe phonegap build service and get ready-apps for submitting to app stores?
    - boyofgreen 11y ago
      Yes you can for the projects that use Cordova for polyfill. The other projects can be uploaded directly with the generated maifest
  - castell 11y ago
    Please revive the Web SQL Database HTML5 API defacto standard [1] or create a new proposal for a relational database API. The NoSQL Indexed Database API is okay, but as we all have learned NoSQL isn't the right solution for everything - both SQL and NoSQL have their place - right? So please add SQL to HTML5 - especially for offline web apps. [1] Supported on more than 90% of all mobile devices (Android, iOS). http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/ http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/ (specification is no longer in active maintenance)
sporkenfang 11y ago
So... how is this better than Apache Cordova?
- detaro 11y ago
  It uses Cordova somehow: > When the platform supports hosted apps, we create them natively, when they don’t we use Cordova to pollyfill the functionality.
- felixrieseberg 11y ago
  (Disclaimer: I work for John Shewchuck) W3C is working on Web App Manifests (http://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/ http://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/), allowing websites to declare app-like properties. ManifoldJS uses that standard for those platforms that support it, but falls back to Cordova for those who don't. Cordova is awesome, but the W3C also considers work done at Mozilla (Firefox Open Web Apps), Google (Chrome Hosted Apps) and stuff we did (Windows 8 had local web apps, Windows 10 extends over to hosted web apps).
  - jfroma 11y ago
    Wouldn't be better to just fix Cordova for this? Like adding support for those manifests
  - sporkenfang 11y ago
    So does this eventually lead to a great merger between the ideas of "web site" and "app"?
    - DaveVoyles 11y ago
      Yes, exactly.
nosuchthing 11y ago
Why bother converting the website to an app in the first place..?
- ericcholis 11y ago
  Market share. Target non-website customers into customers via an app marketplace. If it's seamless, why not?
  - paulirish 11y ago
    For customer acquisition, your chances of engagement with a new user are ~50x higher on mobile web than an app.
    - parkovski 11y ago
      You don't pick one or the other. The original iPhone only supported mobile web, and now it has apps, and they've been pretty successful, so I don't think it's worth arguing against that anymore.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Geee 11y ago
  Web apps as 'apps' are more convenient than using them from the browser. Also, you can submit the app on app stores.
  - billforsternz 11y ago
    I have never seen how downloading and somehow managing a separate 'app' for every destination I'm interested in visiting on the web is more convenient. I much prefer visiting those destinations using a single tool equipped with a range of mature and hyper-convenient favorites mechanisms.
    - 11y ago
yueq 11y ago
Is it a webview?
- Gr8Gatsby 11y ago
  Disclaimer: I work on WebApps @ Microsoft. On Windows the app generated is not using a WebView. Windows supports JavaScript as a native language, so there is no need for a WebView.
Kiro 11y ago
Can I use this to package my HTML5 game (canvas) as an app easily?
- motyar 11y ago
  yes. you can
  - DaveVoyles 11y ago
    Discolsure: I work at Microsoft Assasin's Creed Pirates (iOS, Android) is a BabylonJS (WebGL) game wrapped web app (not with Manifold) and deployed to the app stores. Great views, gorgeous visuals. So a web app can be a lot more than just a wrapped, simple app. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/assassins-creed-pirates/id692717444?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/assassins-creed-pirates/id69...
joshribakoff 11y ago
It seems to me that the difference between a Cordova app & a "hosted app" would be that the Cordova app has the overhead of the "container" & ability to package some of the HTML, JS, & CSS in addition to using web views. The "hosted app" has no ability to package it's assets, but also has no overhead of the "container". The hosted app also has limited access to the device's API. I may be wrong but when they say "native" I believe this means it creates hosted apps for devices like the Firefox phone, while falling back to a hybrid app with a webview for devices that do not support "hosted apps". Can anyone confirm?
- RussianCow 11y ago
  What is the "container" overhead you're talking about? If you mean the communication between the web view and the mobile APIs, then you'd have that regardless, wouldn't you?
  - joshribakoff 11y ago
    Cordova can be compared to java. The phone runs some kind of VM which in turn runs your code. Compared to a hosted app which would be the phone running your code directly.
    - sjs382 11y ago
      Cordova is a chromeless browser with extra APIs.
    - coderzach 11y ago
      nah, cordova is just a wrapper around WebViews with some native bindings and build tools.
    - RussianCow 11y ago
      > The phone runs some kind of VM which in turn runs your code. You mean, like a browser? A hosted app would still need to be rendered by a web browser.
voltagex_ 11y ago
I can't generate a package on manifoldjs.com at the moment - is it overloaded? Edit: Time to upgrade your Azure instance! Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 500 (Internal Server Error) - http://manifold-api-prod.azurewebsites.net/ http://manifold-api-prod.azurewebsites.net/
scottowens 11y ago
or try: http://getappease.com http://getappease.com
Stratoscope 11y ago
My big beef with website mobile apps is the lack of tabs. The ability to open a new page in a new tab - something I take for granted in both desktop and mobile browsers - is simply missing from every site-specific mobile app I've seen. It's not just ubergeeks who use tabs either. I see my non-techie friends use them too. Besides tabs, there are things like bookmarks and the hope (not always fulfilled) of being able to change the text size so I can read it more easily. StackExchange is a good example. I tried their mobile app, and it was such an impoverished experience compared to viewing their mobile site in a browser. I didn't see anything their app did for me that the mobile site didn't do as well or better. I had to wonder what was the point? Google Maps? Sure, I'll use the app. But a website app? Forget it.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- DaveVoyles 11y ago
  It all comes down to what the developer for that app chooses to support. I'm sure there are a number of native applications, regardless of the platform, which look or perform poorly as well. For a web app to really stand out from the web site it is coming from, it should offer some sort of benefit to the end user that could not be found on the site itself.
designium 11y ago
How does it work with Ruby on Rails webapps?
- anilmujagic 11y ago
  I don't think server side tech will make any difference. However, having the web app implemented in SPA style will certainly improve user experience.
DaveVoyles 11y ago
Disclosure: I work for Microsoft I put together a tutorial on how to create a famo.us (awesome framework for high-perf web apps) and use ManifoldJS to deploy it to several platforms. In this case, iOS. http://www.davevoyles.com/creating-a-mobile-app-with-famo-us-and-manifoldjs/ http://www.davevoyles.com/creating-a-mobile-app-with-famo-us...
boyofgreen 11y ago
Hey everyone. I'm @boyofgreen from the ManifoldJS team. I'm excited to hear folks opinions both in favor of and with reservations for ManifoldJS. Our goal is to help web devs reach the app store users by creating hosted apps. In our opinion the best way to do that is to focus around the W3C standard so that devs only need to write one manifest. ManifoldJS will then handle the work of converting it (and polyfilling where necessary) for each platform. I don't think this is the right approach for every web app, but for many it will be. It's not 1999 anymore. Many of your web apps are of a caliber that meets or exceeds that of native apps. The more I seen native apps blending into the web (and bringing their walled garden, singular platform characteristics with it) the more I'm convinced we need manifoldJS. Hosted Apps maintain the cross platform code base, runtime generated, always up-to-date features that we know and love with the web. Now lets reach those users!

178 points by mpalme 11y ago

From what they're saying in the "Test" section of the Deploy documentation (http://www.manifoldjs.com/deploy http://www.manifoldjs.com/deploy), it seems that it just wraps your website in a WebView? This is great from a developer perspective, but I'm not sure if the App Store review process would allow doing something like that.

rentnorove 11y ago
It looks like it's using cordova underneath (see 'community' page), so presumably there will be support for per-platform configuration of icons etc.
- DaveVoyles 11y ago
  Disclosure: I work for Microsoft You can always go in and edit the Cordova project that ManifoldJS returns and add your own images for icons and such. Not sure if ManifoldJS currently supports this out of the box just yet, though.
evo_9 11y ago
Stuffing webpages into a WebView and then selling it on the App Store has been standard fair for years (PhoneGap popularized this method 4+ years ago now).
gavinpc 11y ago
I wondered the same thing when submitting a Cordova app to Apple, which is about 2% wrapping and 98% web site. Just this morning it got through the review process with no problems, so... data point! That said, we did take pains beforehand to make the "web site" behave like an app: responsive, (mostly) single page, swipe support, and tested across all devices.
- themodelplumber 11y ago
  Congratulations, any way we can take a look at it?
  - gavinpc 11y ago
    Sure! Took a little while for it to post.[0] This Android variant [1] also uses Crosswalk, which shields you from differences in the stock WebView. [0] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tenjin-technology-sampler/id983289128 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tenjin-technology-sampler/id... [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ie.tenjin.ati https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ie.tenjin.ati
    - themodelplumber 11y ago
      Cool! Thanks for sharing.
- nerdb4itwascool 11y ago
  My team just got a Cordova app through the apple review process as of yesterday. So, data point #2! I think as long as you try to adhere to Apple's app review guidelines it doesn't matter if you used Cordova or developed natively
davidbanham 11y ago
Apple are fine with Cordova apps in the store. We have a few. They're even fine with those apps being updated without resubmitting.

rememberlenny 11y ago

Tried to run it and didnt get any results. I was getting warnings for missing image cuts.

nodejsisbest 11y ago
mis-read that as cunts.

neil_s 11y ago

Can someone explain like I'm 5, why Manifold is better than the Cordova 'shim' on platforms that support it?

felixrieseberg 11y ago
Copying my comment from below. Disclaimer: I work for John Shewchuck / Microsoft. W3C is working on Web App Manifests (http://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/ http://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/), allowing websites to declare app-like properties. ManifoldJS uses that standard for those platforms that support it, but falls back to Cordova for those who don't. Cordova is awesome, but the W3C also considers work done at Mozilla (Firefox Open Web Apps), Google (Chrome Hosted Apps) and stuff we did (Windows 8 had local web apps, Windows 10 extends over to hosted web apps).
- Touche 11y ago
  Sadly it's all the more common nowadays to see everyone on board a new web standard... except for Apple.
- jetm9 11y ago
  can i use just upload manifest generated by manifold and upload into adobe phonegap build service and get ready-apps for submitting to app stores?
  - boyofgreen 11y ago
    Yes you can for the projects that use Cordova for polyfill. The other projects can be uploaded directly with the generated maifest
- castell 11y ago
  Please revive the Web SQL Database HTML5 API defacto standard [1] or create a new proposal for a relational database API. The NoSQL Indexed Database API is okay, but as we all have learned NoSQL isn't the right solution for everything - both SQL and NoSQL have their place - right? So please add SQL to HTML5 - especially for offline web apps. [1] Supported on more than 90% of all mobile devices (Android, iOS). http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/ http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/ (specification is no longer in active maintenance)

sporkenfang 11y ago

So... how is this better than Apache Cordova?

detaro 11y ago
It uses Cordova somehow: > When the platform supports hosted apps, we create them natively, when they don’t we use Cordova to pollyfill the functionality.
felixrieseberg 11y ago
(Disclaimer: I work for John Shewchuck) W3C is working on Web App Manifests (http://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/ http://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/), allowing websites to declare app-like properties. ManifoldJS uses that standard for those platforms that support it, but falls back to Cordova for those who don't. Cordova is awesome, but the W3C also considers work done at Mozilla (Firefox Open Web Apps), Google (Chrome Hosted Apps) and stuff we did (Windows 8 had local web apps, Windows 10 extends over to hosted web apps).
- jfroma 11y ago
  Wouldn't be better to just fix Cordova for this? Like adding support for those manifests
- sporkenfang 11y ago
  So does this eventually lead to a great merger between the ideas of "web site" and "app"?
  - DaveVoyles 11y ago
    Yes, exactly.

nosuchthing 11y ago

Why bother converting the website to an app in the first place..?

ericcholis 11y ago
Market share. Target non-website customers into customers via an app marketplace. If it's seamless, why not?
- paulirish 11y ago
  For customer acquisition, your chances of engagement with a new user are ~50x higher on mobile web than an app.
  - parkovski 11y ago
    You don't pick one or the other. The original iPhone only supported mobile web, and now it has apps, and they've been pretty successful, so I don't think it's worth arguing against that anymore.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Geee 11y ago
Web apps as 'apps' are more convenient than using them from the browser. Also, you can submit the app on app stores.
- billforsternz 11y ago
  I have never seen how downloading and somehow managing a separate 'app' for every destination I'm interested in visiting on the web is more convenient. I much prefer visiting those destinations using a single tool equipped with a range of mature and hyper-convenient favorites mechanisms.
  - 11y ago

yueq 11y ago

Is it a webview?

Gr8Gatsby 11y ago
Disclaimer: I work on WebApps @ Microsoft. On Windows the app generated is not using a WebView. Windows supports JavaScript as a native language, so there is no need for a WebView.

Kiro 11y ago

Can I use this to package my HTML5 game (canvas) as an app easily?

motyar 11y ago
yes. you can
- DaveVoyles 11y ago
  Discolsure: I work at Microsoft Assasin's Creed Pirates (iOS, Android) is a BabylonJS (WebGL) game wrapped web app (not with Manifold) and deployed to the app stores. Great views, gorgeous visuals. So a web app can be a lot more than just a wrapped, simple app. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/assassins-creed-pirates/id692717444?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/assassins-creed-pirates/id69...

joshribakoff 11y ago

It seems to me that the difference between a Cordova app & a "hosted app" would be that the Cordova app has the overhead of the "container" & ability to package some of the HTML, JS, & CSS in addition to using web views. The "hosted app" has no ability to package it's assets, but also has no overhead of the "container". The hosted app also has limited access to the device's API. I may be wrong but when they say "native" I believe this means it creates hosted apps for devices like the Firefox phone, while falling back to a hybrid app with a webview for devices that do not support "hosted apps". Can anyone confirm?

RussianCow 11y ago
What is the "container" overhead you're talking about? If you mean the communication between the web view and the mobile APIs, then you'd have that regardless, wouldn't you?
- joshribakoff 11y ago
  Cordova can be compared to java. The phone runs some kind of VM which in turn runs your code. Compared to a hosted app which would be the phone running your code directly.
  - sjs382 11y ago
    Cordova is a chromeless browser with extra APIs.
  - coderzach 11y ago
    nah, cordova is just a wrapper around WebViews with some native bindings and build tools.
  - RussianCow 11y ago
    > The phone runs some kind of VM which in turn runs your code. You mean, like a browser? A hosted app would still need to be rendered by a web browser.

voltagex_ 11y ago

I can't generate a package on manifoldjs.com at the moment - is it overloaded? Edit: Time to upgrade your Azure instance! Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 500 (Internal Server Error) - http://manifold-api-prod.azurewebsites.net/ http://manifold-api-prod.azurewebsites.net/

scottowens 11y ago

or try: http://getappease.com http://getappease.com

Stratoscope 11y ago

My big beef with website mobile apps is the lack of tabs. The ability to open a new page in a new tab - something I take for granted in both desktop and mobile browsers - is simply missing from every site-specific mobile app I've seen. It's not just ubergeeks who use tabs either. I see my non-techie friends use them too. Besides tabs, there are things like bookmarks and the hope (not always fulfilled) of being able to change the text size so I can read it more easily. StackExchange is a good example. I tried their mobile app, and it was such an impoverished experience compared to viewing their mobile site in a browser. I didn't see anything their app did for me that the mobile site didn't do as well or better. I had to wonder what was the point? Google Maps? Sure, I'll use the app. But a website app? Forget it.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
DaveVoyles 11y ago
It all comes down to what the developer for that app chooses to support. I'm sure there are a number of native applications, regardless of the platform, which look or perform poorly as well. For a web app to really stand out from the web site it is coming from, it should offer some sort of benefit to the end user that could not be found on the site itself.

designium 11y ago

How does it work with Ruby on Rails webapps?

anilmujagic 11y ago
I don't think server side tech will make any difference. However, having the web app implemented in SPA style will certainly improve user experience.

DaveVoyles 11y ago

Disclosure: I work for Microsoft I put together a tutorial on how to create a famo.us (awesome framework for high-perf web apps) and use ManifoldJS to deploy it to several platforms. In this case, iOS. http://www.davevoyles.com/creating-a-mobile-app-with-famo-us-and-manifoldjs/ http://www.davevoyles.com/creating-a-mobile-app-with-famo-us...

boyofgreen 11y ago

Hey everyone. I'm @boyofgreen from the ManifoldJS team. I'm excited to hear folks opinions both in favor of and with reservations for ManifoldJS. Our goal is to help web devs reach the app store users by creating hosted apps. In our opinion the best way to do that is to focus around the W3C standard so that devs only need to write one manifest. ManifoldJS will then handle the work of converting it (and polyfilling where necessary) for each platform. I don't think this is the right approach for every web app, but for many it will be. It's not 1999 anymore. Many of your web apps are of a caliber that meets or exceeds that of native apps. The more I seen native apps blending into the web (and bringing their walled garden, singular platform characteristics with it) the more I'm convinced we need manifoldJS. Hosted Apps maintain the cross platform code base, runtime generated, always up-to-date features that we know and love with the web. Now lets reach those users!