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My main problem with Perl 6 is that it seems overly large and complex. It is very different from Perl 5, there is effectively no up to date tutorial, and I'm ov

My main problem with Perl 6 is that it seems overly large and complex. It is very different from Perl 5, there is effectively no up to date tutorial, and I'm overwhelmed by Perl 6's apparent complexity.

lazyjones 11y ago
> My main problem with Perl 6 is that it seems overly large and complex. It is very different from Perl 5 Perl 5 is also overly large and complex (with most features getting used only rarely and some being broken/having half-assed implementations), only not as scary because it doesn't get presented to the newbie with its radically new features first. For example, did you know Perl 5 has a UNITCHECK compile phase keyword? Almost noone uses it. Did you know that you can execute code inside a regular expression with (?{ CODE })? It's very useful but too bad that using other regular expressions in the code you use/call from there will break things silently. It's such things that a) made the implementation of Perl 5 already overly complex (and progressing slowly) and b) made things harder for the Perl ecosystem to fully support the language (even parsing Perl to analyze it, like Perl::Critic does, is nearly impossible). Instead of addressing these issues and slimming down the Perl 5 spec to a useful, easier to maintain, optimize and learn core functionality (and perhaps giving it a name that doesn't imply backwards compatibility), they built another large, incompatible mess. We'll see how well Perl 6 does out in the wild.
Ovid 11y ago
Perl 6 isn't as complex as people make it out to be. I have friends who are race car enthusiasts who could go in to excruciating detail about cars and if you don't know how to drive, it could seem daunting. The reality is that most of us get in to our car and just drive. That's part of the issue with Perl 6: its proponents get very excited about it and write about all the really cool stuff you can do with it, but for those who don't know the language, it sounds intimidating. Here's a talk I gave at FOSDEM explaining how day-to-day Perl 6 is fairly straightforward and easier than people think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpu-3UF_b48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpu-3UF_b48
- recurve28 11y ago
  > The reality is that most of us get in to our car and just drive. I don't mean that the internals appear complicated (I wouldn't know anyway), I mean just learning it as a user appears that way. > That's part of the issue with Perl 6: its proponents get very excited about it and write about all the really cool stuff you can do with it, but for those who don't know the language, it sounds intimidating. Yes. But it's not just that; trying to read the Synopses is daunting. It's very easy to get stuck there, try for a while on IRC, then give up. > Here's a talk I gave at FOSDEM ... Thanks for the link, and for the talk.
  - raiph 11y ago
    The Synopses are intended for compiler writers. The writing intended for users is at http://doc.perl6.org http://doc.perl6.org.
    - recurve28 11y ago
      Unfortunately, even the docs at doc.perl6.org give me the impression that either the language is extremely complicated, or that the docs leave out too many essential details, or both. I don't wish to pick apart docs here though. I think that what Perl 6 needs if it is to have a chance to succeed is a really good comprehensive and comprehensible tutorial.
      - raiph 11y ago
        Right. Imo Perl 6 ought to be fairly easy to learn -- the basics are simpler than Perl 5 for example -- but several parts, of which doc is one, are still weak enough that this simplicity is currently obscured. If you're interested, I'd be willing to try to personally tutor you (for free of course). I'm raiphmellor at gmail if you want a private email exchange.

lazyjones 11y ago

> My main problem with Perl 6 is that it seems overly large and complex. It is very different from Perl 5 Perl 5 is also overly large and complex (with most features getting used only rarely and some being broken/having half-assed implementations), only not as scary because it doesn't get presented to the newbie with its radically new features first. For example, did you know Perl 5 has a UNITCHECK compile phase keyword? Almost noone uses it. Did you know that you can execute code inside a regular expression with (?{ CODE })? It's very useful but too bad that using other regular expressions in the code you use/call from there will break things silently. It's such things that a) made the implementation of Perl 5 already overly complex (and progressing slowly) and b) made things harder for the Perl ecosystem to fully support the language (even parsing Perl to analyze it, like Perl::Critic does, is nearly impossible). Instead of addressing these issues and slimming down the Perl 5 spec to a useful, easier to maintain, optimize and learn core functionality (and perhaps giving it a name that doesn't imply backwards compatibility), they built another large, incompatible mess. We'll see how well Perl 6 does out in the wild.

Ovid 11y ago

Perl 6 isn't as complex as people make it out to be. I have friends who are race car enthusiasts who could go in to excruciating detail about cars and if you don't know how to drive, it could seem daunting. The reality is that most of us get in to our car and just drive. That's part of the issue with Perl 6: its proponents get very excited about it and write about all the really cool stuff you can do with it, but for those who don't know the language, it sounds intimidating. Here's a talk I gave at FOSDEM explaining how day-to-day Perl 6 is fairly straightforward and easier than people think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpu-3UF_b48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpu-3UF_b48

recurve28 11y ago
> The reality is that most of us get in to our car and just drive. I don't mean that the internals appear complicated (I wouldn't know anyway), I mean just learning it as a user appears that way. > That's part of the issue with Perl 6: its proponents get very excited about it and write about all the really cool stuff you can do with it, but for those who don't know the language, it sounds intimidating. Yes. But it's not just that; trying to read the Synopses is daunting. It's very easy to get stuck there, try for a while on IRC, then give up. > Here's a talk I gave at FOSDEM ... Thanks for the link, and for the talk.
- raiph 11y ago
  The Synopses are intended for compiler writers. The writing intended for users is at http://doc.perl6.org http://doc.perl6.org.
  - recurve28 11y ago
    Unfortunately, even the docs at doc.perl6.org give me the impression that either the language is extremely complicated, or that the docs leave out too many essential details, or both. I don't wish to pick apart docs here though. I think that what Perl 6 needs if it is to have a chance to succeed is a really good comprehensive and comprehensible tutorial.
    - raiph 11y ago
      Right. Imo Perl 6 ought to be fairly easy to learn -- the basics are simpler than Perl 5 for example -- but several parts, of which doc is one, are still weak enough that this simplicity is currently obscured. If you're interested, I'd be willing to try to personally tutor you (for free of course). I'm raiphmellor at gmail if you want a private email exchange.