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Monsters Together: When Stalin and Hitler Were Allies

13 points by lermontov 12y ago

vetinari 12y ago
Here it comes, demonizing Russians at the price of rewriting history. Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was similar to pacts that every other European country had - including Poland[1]. Except that Poland had it since 1934 and USSR only since 1939. Stalin made it after realizing that Britain and France were playing him from April to August 1939 [2]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggre... [2] http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSnazipact.htm http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSnazipact.htm
- acqq 12y ago
  Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement "The agreement was signed by Germany, France, the United Kingdom, and Italy." and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact Initially: "Germany, Italy and Japan" then: "Hungary (20 November 1940), Romania (23 November 1940), Bulgaria (1 March 1941) and Yugoslavia (25 March 1941), as well as by the German client state of Slovakia (24 November 1940). Yugoslavia's adherence provoked a coup d'état in Belgrade, and Italy and Germany responded by invading Yugoslavia" Note that some countries first signed and only then the Nazi regimes came to power in them. Hard time in Europe then.
- gumby 12y ago
  I did not read that article as demonizing Russia, or, really, even Stalin.
sly_g 12y ago
Stalin was a Hitler's ally no more than a person, yielding to a ransom demand from a kidnapper. His one and main purpose was to delay Germany attack on USSR, to prepare for war as good as it was possible. Anything else would be a suicide. It's just a part of massive denigration campaign.
- maxharris 12y ago
  It's just a part of massive denigration campaign. Stalin was a mass murderer: "The exact number of deaths caused by Stalin's regime is a subject of debate, but it is widely agreed upon that it is on the order of millions." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
iammyIP 12y ago
That is not a good title. I don't like them being called 'Monsters', since this totally misses the point and prevents any useful further insights. Both Hitler and Stalin were HUMANS, like all (most) of us. They were once young kids, had dreams, hopes, feelings not too unsimilar to everyone else. What has become of them is not a 'Monster', it's a result of deeply buried interactions between the human condition and our environment. And even if not, and they both have been sent by some satanic deity, they still should be called humans - not monsters, because that only helps writing the whole historic event off as a distant fairytale where you might aswell add some dragons to sauce it up even further into fantasyland.

13 points by lermontov 12y ago

Here it comes, demonizing Russians at the price of rewriting history. Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was similar to pacts that every other European country had - including Poland[1]. Except that Poland had it since 1934 and USSR only since 1939. Stalin made it after realizing that Britain and France were playing him from April to August 1939 [2]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggre... [2] http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSnazipact.htm http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSnazipact.htm

acqq 12y ago
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement "The agreement was signed by Germany, France, the United Kingdom, and Italy." and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact Initially: "Germany, Italy and Japan" then: "Hungary (20 November 1940), Romania (23 November 1940), Bulgaria (1 March 1941) and Yugoslavia (25 March 1941), as well as by the German client state of Slovakia (24 November 1940). Yugoslavia's adherence provoked a coup d'état in Belgrade, and Italy and Germany responded by invading Yugoslavia" Note that some countries first signed and only then the Nazi regimes came to power in them. Hard time in Europe then.
gumby 12y ago
I did not read that article as demonizing Russia, or, really, even Stalin.

sly_g 12y ago

Stalin was a Hitler's ally no more than a person, yielding to a ransom demand from a kidnapper. His one and main purpose was to delay Germany attack on USSR, to prepare for war as good as it was possible. Anything else would be a suicide. It's just a part of massive denigration campaign.

maxharris 12y ago
It's just a part of massive denigration campaign. Stalin was a mass murderer: "The exact number of deaths caused by Stalin's regime is a subject of debate, but it is widely agreed upon that it is on the order of millions." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

iammyIP 12y ago

That is not a good title. I don't like them being called 'Monsters', since this totally misses the point and prevents any useful further insights. Both Hitler and Stalin were HUMANS, like all (most) of us. They were once young kids, had dreams, hopes, feelings not too unsimilar to everyone else. What has become of them is not a 'Monster', it's a result of deeply buried interactions between the human condition and our environment. And even if not, and they both have been sent by some satanic deity, they still should be called humans - not monsters, because that only helps writing the whole historic event off as a distant fairytale where you might aswell add some dragons to sauce it up even further into fantasyland.