5 ms·

"And if you truly can't squeeze out the funds, but still want to project an international atmosphere, I suggest using black people. They have a very open person

by jordigh 12y ago

"And if you truly can't squeeze out the funds, but still want to project an international atmosphere, I suggest using black people. They have a very open personality yet are quite cheap." Oh. My. God. I do wonder why does this seem to happen universally in the world? Why does apparently every culture think whites are pretty and blacks are ugly? I think it's more than European colonialism. It seems to be ingrained even in children. The following example from Mexican children comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrMUnw4Xt-k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrMUnw4Xt-k I could translate it if anyone's interested, but they basically show kids a white and a brown doll and ask them which one is good and which one is pretty and they all uniformly point to the white doll.

tim333 12y ago
>why does this seem to happen universally in the world? I think there are two factors in play Firstly the average white is probably richer that the average black globally and so would give a better impression for plugging real estate. That could be negated if you can get a high status black guy to promote your thing. Secondly people tend to use white for good and black for bad I think due to the association with daylight and seeing things. Light shows up bad stuff which hides in the dark.
halviti 12y ago
Nothing in your quote suggests blacks are ugly. It does suggest they will work for less money, and if you're looking at demographics, blacks actually do tend to make less than whites in many places. You can easily debate the merits of that, but I don't think you can draw a straight line between price and beauty here, as there could be many other factors at work, such as basic economics (supply and demand). i.e. - there could be a supply of 200 black people and 2 white people, making the whites more valuable simply because they are scarce. I mean I agree with you, but I don't think you can directly jump to those conclusions based on this.
- ryanmonroe 12y ago
  I think the fact that they are paid less, in the context of the video, implies there is less demand for them (probably much less as I assume they are also in shorter supply. Could be wrong about that though). If there is less demand, and their value in this context is their appearance, that means their appearance is seen to be less valuable in impressing customers. Hence, the conclusion that black people are seen as less good looking than white people.
  - sumedh 12y ago
    > the conclusion that black people are seen as less good looking than white people. I dont think its about looks, its about status. White people atleast in India are considered to be rich and successful while black people who are from Africa are poor. I assume its the same in China.
    - jordigh 12y ago
      I'm sorry to be so dismissive, but I've heard Mexican people say the same bullshit, that it's about social class, not about race (as if that made it any better). First of all, India's full of racist and sexist bullshit. Evidence of this is arranged marriages in the papers and job ads that specify appearance or sex. There's a long way to go before all members of Indian society can truly have political and social equality. Second of all, I hotly contest that genetics or appearance has no bearing how you're treated in India and only your social class does. If you're dark but wealthy, you're still seen as inferior to someone who is white and wealthy. And besides, when people first see someone, you can't immediately always guess their social class by their appearance, yet people will still use their appearance to decide how to treat someone. In Mexico we have a very widespread and very invisible racism, institutionalised centuries ago by the Spaniards (to be fair, the Aztecs before them weren't that nice either). Mexicans can't see it like fish can't see the water they swim in. India has the same problem, and Indians try to deny it by saying that it's not about race, but about class, just like Mexicans do.
      - sumedh 12y ago
        > India's full of racist and sexist bullshit. I agree but to be fair, forget the white and black people, we hate others Indians too. Different religion, different language, different caste, we hate them all. > that it's about social class, Well if you saw the video they say the white guy is a model or a contestant from US show, so he is not just an average guy from the street so they are selling success/status aka social class.
- chillingeffect 12y ago
  It's the line before what he quoted which says "Now it is true that the price of white people is more expensive... but it makes the place feel classier." I believe he has a right to be feel outraged. I do too. This is a great example of capitalism's effect on morals: When a major investment looks risky, capitalists, instead of letting it fail and saying, "invisible hand, market, evolution, that's the way the cookie crumbles, that was a learning experience" compromise on their values and say, "Well, if I resort to playing into and supporting people's lowest tendencies with regard to race, then maybe I can recoup this investment." In this case, it's their huge investment in housing that obviously nobody wants. They should just let it fail, but instead, they'll stoke and validate people's basest suspicions in an attempt to get their money back. I would feel like shit if exploiting and perpetuating racialism made me millions.
smtddr 12y ago
I've always assumed this was because America/Europe's culture has influenced everyone else's. Pretty much everyone watches and is heavy influenced by american TV. We know what ideas and images American media portray(think standard blonde barbie doll image). Then speeches like this have to happen - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPCkfARH2eE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPCkfARH2eE ...and articles like this must be written - http://thehairpin.com/2014/09/white-beauty-myth http://thehairpin.com/2014/09/white-beauty-myth History of how black people tried bleaching our skin or straightening our hair. I still cringe that my wife wears weaves from time to time because I always remember the history of why black women do that; how it all started. I comfort myself by trying to think that they've taken & owned the weave in the same way black people have "taken" the N-word into their own identity... sorta....kinda...maybe...... it's complicated.
- sigterm 12y ago
  This is not true. Even ancient Chinese had a strong preference for light skin tone. My understanding is that darker skin usually means a person is more exposed to sunlight, presumably from farming work, which is an indicator of lower social status.
  - smtddr 12y ago
    That should be specific to a dark brown Chinese person; not to an African American. Since we know the average Chinese person does not have dark brown skin, seeing such a person would make you wonder why that is. e.g., we know dirt/mud is brown and generally shouldn't pick up a hand-full off the ground and eat it... but people still like the image of chocolate deserts. The color red represents danger is an almost universal way(assuming it's because seeing blood is usually a bad sign for all humans and animals)... but people don't look at a red rose that way. >>This is not true You can't really claim that America's history & media has nothing to do it. You can debate to what degree, but to dismiss it completely is impossible.
    - gwern 12y ago
      > That should be specific to a dark brown Chinese person; not to an African American. If the preference were an idealized optimal algorithm, perhaps; but people are adaptation-executers. The simplest rule is 'lighter skin means richer', and so when one runs into an African, it's not necessarily perfect. (Although given how many poor African immigrants there are in China now, I'm not sure that's a bug rather than a feature.)
sumedh 12y ago
> Why does apparently every culture think whites are pretty and blacks are ugly? I dont know about the ugly factor but atleast in India being white is associated with being rich. White people are rich while blacks who are from Africa are poor.
- middleclick 12y ago
  A "white person" in India is also considered to be more "cleaner". India is one of the most racist societies in the world probably.
  - sumedh 12y ago
    What exactly do you mean by "cleaner" > India is one of the most racist societies in the world probably. Source?
    - selectodude 12y ago
      Have you never heard of the caste system?
      - sumedh 12y ago
        I live in India so yes, I have heard of the caste system.
DominikR 12y ago
Beauty is obviously subjective but quite often it is not only about physical attributes but also about social status, power and money. I think that most people here will agree that white people are on average better off from a financial perspective. For that you only have to look at how much the average person from "the West" consumes compared to for example the average Southeast Asian.
microarchitect 12y ago
It's definitely colonialism and the effect of modern western media. I know this because I grew up seeing this change happen in India. Today in India everyone (obviously an unfair generalization but still) wants to conform to the white standards of beauty. This wasn't always the case. In south india, I gradually saw the change happen; each generation of film actors was more light-skinned than their predecessors. And if you read the classics of Indian literature, a lot of the protagonists are dark skinned. The funny thing is even a lot of the Indian gods and mythological characters are portrayed as being dark skinned in the myths, but modern paintings, TV serials and movies portray these characters with light-skinned actors!
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  My sister-in-law from the Philippines was amazed that our drug stores have an aisle dedicated to darkening your skin (Tanning). Back home, that aisle is full of skin-whitening products.

by jordigh 12y ago

tim333 12y ago

>why does this seem to happen universally in the world? I think there are two factors in play Firstly the average white is probably richer that the average black globally and so would give a better impression for plugging real estate. That could be negated if you can get a high status black guy to promote your thing. Secondly people tend to use white for good and black for bad I think due to the association with daylight and seeing things. Light shows up bad stuff which hides in the dark.

halviti 12y ago

Nothing in your quote suggests blacks are ugly. It does suggest they will work for less money, and if you're looking at demographics, blacks actually do tend to make less than whites in many places. You can easily debate the merits of that, but I don't think you can draw a straight line between price and beauty here, as there could be many other factors at work, such as basic economics (supply and demand). i.e. - there could be a supply of 200 black people and 2 white people, making the whites more valuable simply because they are scarce. I mean I agree with you, but I don't think you can directly jump to those conclusions based on this.

ryanmonroe 12y ago
I think the fact that they are paid less, in the context of the video, implies there is less demand for them (probably much less as I assume they are also in shorter supply. Could be wrong about that though). If there is less demand, and their value in this context is their appearance, that means their appearance is seen to be less valuable in impressing customers. Hence, the conclusion that black people are seen as less good looking than white people.
- sumedh 12y ago
  > the conclusion that black people are seen as less good looking than white people. I dont think its about looks, its about status. White people atleast in India are considered to be rich and successful while black people who are from Africa are poor. I assume its the same in China.
  - jordigh 12y ago
    I'm sorry to be so dismissive, but I've heard Mexican people say the same bullshit, that it's about social class, not about race (as if that made it any better). First of all, India's full of racist and sexist bullshit. Evidence of this is arranged marriages in the papers and job ads that specify appearance or sex. There's a long way to go before all members of Indian society can truly have political and social equality. Second of all, I hotly contest that genetics or appearance has no bearing how you're treated in India and only your social class does. If you're dark but wealthy, you're still seen as inferior to someone who is white and wealthy. And besides, when people first see someone, you can't immediately always guess their social class by their appearance, yet people will still use their appearance to decide how to treat someone. In Mexico we have a very widespread and very invisible racism, institutionalised centuries ago by the Spaniards (to be fair, the Aztecs before them weren't that nice either). Mexicans can't see it like fish can't see the water they swim in. India has the same problem, and Indians try to deny it by saying that it's not about race, but about class, just like Mexicans do.
    - sumedh 12y ago
      > India's full of racist and sexist bullshit. I agree but to be fair, forget the white and black people, we hate others Indians too. Different religion, different language, different caste, we hate them all. > that it's about social class, Well if you saw the video they say the white guy is a model or a contestant from US show, so he is not just an average guy from the street so they are selling success/status aka social class.
chillingeffect 12y ago
It's the line before what he quoted which says "Now it is true that the price of white people is more expensive... but it makes the place feel classier." I believe he has a right to be feel outraged. I do too. This is a great example of capitalism's effect on morals: When a major investment looks risky, capitalists, instead of letting it fail and saying, "invisible hand, market, evolution, that's the way the cookie crumbles, that was a learning experience" compromise on their values and say, "Well, if I resort to playing into and supporting people's lowest tendencies with regard to race, then maybe I can recoup this investment." In this case, it's their huge investment in housing that obviously nobody wants. They should just let it fail, but instead, they'll stoke and validate people's basest suspicions in an attempt to get their money back. I would feel like shit if exploiting and perpetuating racialism made me millions.

smtddr 12y ago

I've always assumed this was because America/Europe's culture has influenced everyone else's. Pretty much everyone watches and is heavy influenced by american TV. We know what ideas and images American media portray(think standard blonde barbie doll image). Then speeches like this have to happen - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPCkfARH2eE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPCkfARH2eE ...and articles like this must be written - http://thehairpin.com/2014/09/white-beauty-myth http://thehairpin.com/2014/09/white-beauty-myth History of how black people tried bleaching our skin or straightening our hair. I still cringe that my wife wears weaves from time to time because I always remember the history of why black women do that; how it all started. I comfort myself by trying to think that they've taken & owned the weave in the same way black people have "taken" the N-word into their own identity... sorta....kinda...maybe...... it's complicated.

sigterm 12y ago
This is not true. Even ancient Chinese had a strong preference for light skin tone. My understanding is that darker skin usually means a person is more exposed to sunlight, presumably from farming work, which is an indicator of lower social status.
- smtddr 12y ago
  That should be specific to a dark brown Chinese person; not to an African American. Since we know the average Chinese person does not have dark brown skin, seeing such a person would make you wonder why that is. e.g., we know dirt/mud is brown and generally shouldn't pick up a hand-full off the ground and eat it... but people still like the image of chocolate deserts. The color red represents danger is an almost universal way(assuming it's because seeing blood is usually a bad sign for all humans and animals)... but people don't look at a red rose that way. >>This is not true You can't really claim that America's history & media has nothing to do it. You can debate to what degree, but to dismiss it completely is impossible.
  - gwern 12y ago
    > That should be specific to a dark brown Chinese person; not to an African American. If the preference were an idealized optimal algorithm, perhaps; but people are adaptation-executers. The simplest rule is 'lighter skin means richer', and so when one runs into an African, it's not necessarily perfect. (Although given how many poor African immigrants there are in China now, I'm not sure that's a bug rather than a feature.)

sumedh 12y ago

> Why does apparently every culture think whites are pretty and blacks are ugly? I dont know about the ugly factor but atleast in India being white is associated with being rich. White people are rich while blacks who are from Africa are poor.

middleclick 12y ago
A "white person" in India is also considered to be more "cleaner". India is one of the most racist societies in the world probably.
- sumedh 12y ago
  What exactly do you mean by "cleaner" > India is one of the most racist societies in the world probably. Source?
  - selectodude 12y ago
    Have you never heard of the caste system?
    - sumedh 12y ago
      I live in India so yes, I have heard of the caste system.

DominikR 12y ago

Beauty is obviously subjective but quite often it is not only about physical attributes but also about social status, power and money. I think that most people here will agree that white people are on average better off from a financial perspective. For that you only have to look at how much the average person from "the West" consumes compared to for example the average Southeast Asian.

microarchitect 12y ago

It's definitely colonialism and the effect of modern western media. I know this because I grew up seeing this change happen in India. Today in India everyone (obviously an unfair generalization but still) wants to conform to the white standards of beauty. This wasn't always the case. In south india, I gradually saw the change happen; each generation of film actors was more light-skinned than their predecessors. And if you read the classics of Indian literature, a lot of the protagonists are dark skinned. The funny thing is even a lot of the Indian gods and mythological characters are portrayed as being dark skinned in the myths, but modern paintings, TV serials and movies portray these characters with light-skinned actors!

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
My sister-in-law from the Philippines was amazed that our drug stores have an aisle dedicated to darkening your skin (Tanning). Back home, that aisle is full of skin-whitening products.