7 ms·

Priceline.com get $1000+ CPM for deceptive links in the checkout process

86 points by petewarden 17y ago

ivenkys 17y ago
As always, the clarion call on the internet remains - Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware.
- petewarden 17y ago
  The problem is that it's extremely hard to know you are a buyer at all. They put a lot of effort into concealing you'll get charged, and since they silently get your credit card details from the hosting site, you don't get the usual 'enter numbers and agree' page to signal you're entering into a transaction.
  - mbreese 17y ago
    Is there any legitimate reason for a company to pass your payment information onto another "partner" (aside from a payment processor like PayPal, etc)? I can't think of one. If there isn't, the simple thing would be to just ban this practice.
    - petewarden 17y ago
      I agree - the FTC has effecticley banned this 'data pass' practice for tele-marketers since 2003, they should extend it to websites too.
    - Alex3917 17y ago
      Maybe using a travel site to book a combination airfare + hotel package. That's about it though.
    - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
      Hopefully that's all they ban...situations like this make me nervous because legislators don't seem to have the ability to comprehend an industry before they pass sweeping legislation. I could easily see the backlash from this resulting in legislation that forces online merchants to make customers jump through a bunch of hoops before they can sign up for a monthly recurring billing plan.
breck 17y ago
One of the real problems is that often the card companies make it hard to dispute things. I used to get billed $1 per month on my PayPal account for something called "YOURSAVINGSCLUB". This went on for like 6 or 7 months. I called their number to "cancel" whatever it was they were charging me for, and they said they required my credit card number to cancel my account. Given I already knew they were dishonest, I wasn't going to give them my number again, just in case they didn't actually have it and relied on a third party for the billing. Anyway, I tried to resolve it instead through PayPal but to do so involved a Fax machine, and everytime I started the process I gave up because it wasn't worth the time for the one dollar. Luckily I think PayPal finally figured it out and cut them off, as I haven't been charged in 6 months or so.
- ryanwaggoner 17y ago
  Paypal may make it hard to deal with, but I've never had issues disputing charges on an actual credit card.
  - noodle 17y ago
    the paypal EULA involves waiving rights to dispute paypal charges. i've known people to try, who got punished/billed/fined for trying to do so. i try and avoid using paypal whenever possible, especially for recurring billing.
- cdr 17y ago
  PayPal is completely different than a credit card. What you probably should have done, if the PayPal charge was coming off of a credit card, is dispute the PayPal charge with your credit card company.
Alex3917 17y ago
The background of the Priceline guy is in using game theory and psychological tricks to maximize the addictiveness of slot machines. That's the whole point of Priceline, to apply these tricks to online shopping to maximize the revenue. This is pretty obvious going in, and maybe the site is deceptive above and beyond that, but is this really a surprise? It seems like they've crossed the line here and this should be fixed, but you really shouldn't be shopping there in the first place.
- chime 17y ago
  > but you really shouldn't be shopping there in the first place. What makes you say that? I wanted to rent a small car for a week and not one site quoted under $300. Priceline quote came in at $120 from the exact same car companies. It worked out great for me. Of course, I was very cautious about not signing up for 10 other things.
- rick888 17y ago
  I've been using priceline for all my vacations and it's great. I have been able to get $100 for $20. The only think I don't like is that you can't cancel a reservation. Once you pay win a bid, the only way to cancel is an act of god.
- nixme 17y ago
  Are you sure you're not thinking of Swoopo, not Priceline?
psranga 17y ago
Does Adblock Plus hide these offers? I don't remember ever seeing anything like this.
dkokelley 17y ago
The problem is that consumers have given control of their debit cards over to the merchants. When they do this, they (possibly inadvertently) give them a blank checkbook. A credit/debit card should be more like a virtual wallet than a blank checkbook. I would love merchants to have to ask my - not my banks - permission each time they wanted to charge me. The system right now relies on the honesty of the merchants. If all charges had to go through the consumer's approval first, then I don't think we'd see much of the free credit report scams anymore. Instead of having to call up a recurring (and unsolicited) biller, just decline all payments to the merchant and let the merchant figure out that they're not getting paid. If I had the means, I think I would start a Bank 2.0. It would have a killer web interface, charge authentication through cell phones or control panel, and instead of dealing with loans and interest, I would probably make make money through Visa charges.
- clawrencewenham 17y ago
  I had the same idea. I figured that VoIP made it cheap enough for a computer to call me whenever someone tried to charge my card, and I would have to enter a PIN on the phone before it authorized it. If the timeout on POS card terminals is long enough (about 30-60 seconds), it's enough time for a computer to call my cell, read me the amount to be charged, then wait for me to enter a PIN (not necessarily the same PIN you use on an ATM). A bank could offer a web interface for me to authorize a list of "always allow" merchants and their charge limits so I don't have to re-authorize supermarkets and recurring subscriptions. And finally, an interface to list "always deny" merchants. I like the idea of cancelling an unwanted service by shutting off the flow of money, and then calling their customer support to notify them. In fact, I think that should be a basic human right. I shouldn't have to argue with a Customer Retention Department (something that pisses me off just in the concept alone), I should just inform them (or let my bank inform them), that I'm no longer their customer. Me: "Hi, I've cancelled my account." Them: "I'm sorry, I'll have to transfer you to a customer retention representative." Me: "No, you don't understand. I've already shut off payments, I'm just giving you a courtesy call. Bye."
  - sh1mmer 17y ago
    I've done that last thing in the UK, however I had to do it via the fraud dept. I had to report unwanted chargers from an e-tailer I'd "cancelled" my account online with as fraud. However Barclays did make it a reasonably painless and speedy task (comparatively).
hristov 17y ago
It is amazing to me how credit card companies allow these scams to exist. If somebody does charges people without their consent, they are bound to get a lot of chargebacks and this is just a headache for the cc companies. Also, it is not in the credit card companies interest to allow the credit cards to be conduits for scams. My parents used to have a business and even though it was a completely legitimate business they were constantly scared of chargebacks. They knew that even a small percentage of chargebacks can cause them trouble with the CC companies and offerred their customers money back whenever possible to avoid chargebacks. And again this was an honest business selling real tangible things to people that knew they were buying those things, not some online scam. But now you see some companies use credit card billing for nothing but scams and somehow they are allowed to keep their merchant accounts.
condor 17y ago
The actual staff report linked in that article is well worth the read. These companies are basically running shady private tax schemes. No value-added. I'm glad the senate report provides a list of the 'partner' commerce companies that have made over $1MM using these schemes. I'll be thinking twice about giving any of them my business. [PDF]http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/111609EXHIBITSTOSTAFFREPORT.pdf http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/111609EXHIBITSTOSTA...
fnid 17y ago
Well, I don't trust priceline anymore. I used to recommend them to everyone, but not anymore. I booked hotels and rental cars frequently when I traveled and I need another one soon, but I think I might not use them this time.

86 points by petewarden 17y ago

ivenkys 17y ago

As always, the clarion call on the internet remains - Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware.

petewarden 17y ago
The problem is that it's extremely hard to know you are a buyer at all. They put a lot of effort into concealing you'll get charged, and since they silently get your credit card details from the hosting site, you don't get the usual 'enter numbers and agree' page to signal you're entering into a transaction.
- mbreese 17y ago
  Is there any legitimate reason for a company to pass your payment information onto another "partner" (aside from a payment processor like PayPal, etc)? I can't think of one. If there isn't, the simple thing would be to just ban this practice.
  - petewarden 17y ago
    I agree - the FTC has effecticley banned this 'data pass' practice for tele-marketers since 2003, they should extend it to websites too.
  - Alex3917 17y ago
    Maybe using a travel site to book a combination airfare + hotel package. That's about it though.
  - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
    Hopefully that's all they ban...situations like this make me nervous because legislators don't seem to have the ability to comprehend an industry before they pass sweeping legislation. I could easily see the backlash from this resulting in legislation that forces online merchants to make customers jump through a bunch of hoops before they can sign up for a monthly recurring billing plan.

breck 17y ago

One of the real problems is that often the card companies make it hard to dispute things. I used to get billed $1 per month on my PayPal account for something called "YOURSAVINGSCLUB". This went on for like 6 or 7 months. I called their number to "cancel" whatever it was they were charging me for, and they said they required my credit card number to cancel my account. Given I already knew they were dishonest, I wasn't going to give them my number again, just in case they didn't actually have it and relied on a third party for the billing. Anyway, I tried to resolve it instead through PayPal but to do so involved a Fax machine, and everytime I started the process I gave up because it wasn't worth the time for the one dollar. Luckily I think PayPal finally figured it out and cut them off, as I haven't been charged in 6 months or so.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago
Paypal may make it hard to deal with, but I've never had issues disputing charges on an actual credit card.
- noodle 17y ago
  the paypal EULA involves waiving rights to dispute paypal charges. i've known people to try, who got punished/billed/fined for trying to do so. i try and avoid using paypal whenever possible, especially for recurring billing.
cdr 17y ago
PayPal is completely different than a credit card. What you probably should have done, if the PayPal charge was coming off of a credit card, is dispute the PayPal charge with your credit card company.

Alex3917 17y ago

The background of the Priceline guy is in using game theory and psychological tricks to maximize the addictiveness of slot machines. That's the whole point of Priceline, to apply these tricks to online shopping to maximize the revenue. This is pretty obvious going in, and maybe the site is deceptive above and beyond that, but is this really a surprise? It seems like they've crossed the line here and this should be fixed, but you really shouldn't be shopping there in the first place.

chime 17y ago
> but you really shouldn't be shopping there in the first place. What makes you say that? I wanted to rent a small car for a week and not one site quoted under $300. Priceline quote came in at $120 from the exact same car companies. It worked out great for me. Of course, I was very cautious about not signing up for 10 other things.
rick888 17y ago
I've been using priceline for all my vacations and it's great. I have been able to get $100 for $20. The only think I don't like is that you can't cancel a reservation. Once you pay win a bid, the only way to cancel is an act of god.
nixme 17y ago
Are you sure you're not thinking of Swoopo, not Priceline?

psranga 17y ago

Does Adblock Plus hide these offers? I don't remember ever seeing anything like this.

dkokelley 17y ago

The problem is that consumers have given control of their debit cards over to the merchants. When they do this, they (possibly inadvertently) give them a blank checkbook. A credit/debit card should be more like a virtual wallet than a blank checkbook. I would love merchants to have to ask my - not my banks - permission each time they wanted to charge me. The system right now relies on the honesty of the merchants. If all charges had to go through the consumer's approval first, then I don't think we'd see much of the free credit report scams anymore. Instead of having to call up a recurring (and unsolicited) biller, just decline all payments to the merchant and let the merchant figure out that they're not getting paid. If I had the means, I think I would start a Bank 2.0. It would have a killer web interface, charge authentication through cell phones or control panel, and instead of dealing with loans and interest, I would probably make make money through Visa charges.

clawrencewenham 17y ago
I had the same idea. I figured that VoIP made it cheap enough for a computer to call me whenever someone tried to charge my card, and I would have to enter a PIN on the phone before it authorized it. If the timeout on POS card terminals is long enough (about 30-60 seconds), it's enough time for a computer to call my cell, read me the amount to be charged, then wait for me to enter a PIN (not necessarily the same PIN you use on an ATM). A bank could offer a web interface for me to authorize a list of "always allow" merchants and their charge limits so I don't have to re-authorize supermarkets and recurring subscriptions. And finally, an interface to list "always deny" merchants. I like the idea of cancelling an unwanted service by shutting off the flow of money, and then calling their customer support to notify them. In fact, I think that should be a basic human right. I shouldn't have to argue with a Customer Retention Department (something that pisses me off just in the concept alone), I should just inform them (or let my bank inform them), that I'm no longer their customer. Me: "Hi, I've cancelled my account." Them: "I'm sorry, I'll have to transfer you to a customer retention representative." Me: "No, you don't understand. I've already shut off payments, I'm just giving you a courtesy call. Bye."
- sh1mmer 17y ago
  I've done that last thing in the UK, however I had to do it via the fraud dept. I had to report unwanted chargers from an e-tailer I'd "cancelled" my account online with as fraud. However Barclays did make it a reasonably painless and speedy task (comparatively).

hristov 17y ago

It is amazing to me how credit card companies allow these scams to exist. If somebody does charges people without their consent, they are bound to get a lot of chargebacks and this is just a headache for the cc companies. Also, it is not in the credit card companies interest to allow the credit cards to be conduits for scams. My parents used to have a business and even though it was a completely legitimate business they were constantly scared of chargebacks. They knew that even a small percentage of chargebacks can cause them trouble with the CC companies and offerred their customers money back whenever possible to avoid chargebacks. And again this was an honest business selling real tangible things to people that knew they were buying those things, not some online scam. But now you see some companies use credit card billing for nothing but scams and somehow they are allowed to keep their merchant accounts.

condor 17y ago

The actual staff report linked in that article is well worth the read. These companies are basically running shady private tax schemes. No value-added. I'm glad the senate report provides a list of the 'partner' commerce companies that have made over $1MM using these schemes. I'll be thinking twice about giving any of them my business. [PDF]http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/111609EXHIBITSTOSTAFFREPORT.pdf http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/111609EXHIBITSTOSTA...

fnid 17y ago

Well, I don't trust priceline anymore. I used to recommend them to everyone, but not anymore. I booked hotels and rental cars frequently when I traveled and I need another one soon, but I think I might not use them this time.