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Salesforce CEO examines 16k workers’ salaries to make sure women are paid fairly

6 points by sethbannon 12y ago

walshemj 12y ago
Just a wild guess here the answers "NO" I could be wrong of course :-)
alain94040 12y ago
This is a good idea. An even better implementation is to have an independent third-party review the salaries and issue some kind of official report or recommendations. Smart CEOs would use such services. It's not perfect, but at least you could address any flagrant pay disparity.
paulhauggis 12y ago
"was that companies with flexible work policies or maternity leave benefits were actually linked with a slower promotion of women into top ranks" This actually makes sense. Women with children most likely spend more time away from work, taking time off for appointments, and leaving work at normal times (and most likely spending time with the family instead of working on weekends). All of these things hurt your career opportunities. When I was working a corporate job, you needed to do all of these things to advance. Some men with families were also passed up for promotions because they were unwilling and unable to spend more time at the office. "My job is to make sure that women are treated 100 percent equally at Salesforce in pay, opportunity and advancement." One of the reasons two people in the same position get better pay is better negotiating skills. At my first job, I found out how much my co-workers made, by chance. I was paid $20,000 more per year for pretty much the same position (and almost the same education). He was even there 3 years prior to my being hired. Was there some sort of discrimination involved? no. I just knew what I was worth and wouldn't accept anything less. Will they also compare men in the same position (one man to another)? The end result of all of this will be a normalization of salaries meaning everyone in the same position will be paid exactly the same, which is great for companies because you will not be able to negotiate. I'm glad I'm no longer an employee. The IT crowd seems to love making it that much easier to outsource to foreign countries, pay Americans less, and remove any leverage an employee actually has, all in the name of "equality". Why stop at jobs? Should we also make it difficult for any sort of business deal (which is what an employment contact is) to be negotiated by forcing a specific rate? Is it fair that I bought my house for a cheaper rate than the previous owner?
renaudg 12y ago
"was that companies with flexible work policies or maternity leave benefits were actually linked with a slower promotion of women into top ranks. The explanation: Such benefits can lead to a check-the-box mentality, in which companies think they've done enough to help women along." Or how about the more likely (but less P.C.) explanation : taking more time off work leads to well... less opportunities at work. As it arguably should be (because meritocracy) Is the alternative (artificially "correcting" pay gaps) really fair to other colleagues who worked their asses off ? I can understand the good intent but it's a slippery slope : is that also going to apply to men who decide to take time off for hobbies, or is it a female-only privilege btw ?
- morbius 12y ago
  Time off for hobbies and maternity leave are two very, very different things. Also, slippery slope arguments are considered so fallacious because they're often the most extreme visions of what will happen, when the most likely change will be very, very little. The same rhetoric was used to inhibit women's voting rights, but ended up being fallacious as well.
  - undersuit 12y ago
    Are hobbies and child-rearing really that much different? Hobbies can be just as time consuming and expensive. Some hobbies can interfere with work in a long term way just like maternity leave. Really the similarity only falls part that maternity is sometimes not a choice... and I'd rather not open the can of worms that is abortion; let's just assume that just like a hobby, you have chosen this path.
    - karmakaze 12y ago
      One may also be 'exposed' to a hobby and their degree of involvement is not a choice.

6 points by sethbannon 12y ago

Just a wild guess here the answers "NO" I could be wrong of course :-)

This is a good idea. An even better implementation is to have an independent third-party review the salaries and issue some kind of official report or recommendations. Smart CEOs would use such services. It's not perfect, but at least you could address any flagrant pay disparity.

paulhauggis 12y ago

"was that companies with flexible work policies or maternity leave benefits were actually linked with a slower promotion of women into top ranks" This actually makes sense. Women with children most likely spend more time away from work, taking time off for appointments, and leaving work at normal times (and most likely spending time with the family instead of working on weekends). All of these things hurt your career opportunities. When I was working a corporate job, you needed to do all of these things to advance. Some men with families were also passed up for promotions because they were unwilling and unable to spend more time at the office. "My job is to make sure that women are treated 100 percent equally at Salesforce in pay, opportunity and advancement." One of the reasons two people in the same position get better pay is better negotiating skills. At my first job, I found out how much my co-workers made, by chance. I was paid $20,000 more per year for pretty much the same position (and almost the same education). He was even there 3 years prior to my being hired. Was there some sort of discrimination involved? no. I just knew what I was worth and wouldn't accept anything less. Will they also compare men in the same position (one man to another)? The end result of all of this will be a normalization of salaries meaning everyone in the same position will be paid exactly the same, which is great for companies because you will not be able to negotiate. I'm glad I'm no longer an employee. The IT crowd seems to love making it that much easier to outsource to foreign countries, pay Americans less, and remove any leverage an employee actually has, all in the name of "equality". Why stop at jobs? Should we also make it difficult for any sort of business deal (which is what an employment contact is) to be negotiated by forcing a specific rate? Is it fair that I bought my house for a cheaper rate than the previous owner?

renaudg 12y ago

"was that companies with flexible work policies or maternity leave benefits were actually linked with a slower promotion of women into top ranks. The explanation: Such benefits can lead to a check-the-box mentality, in which companies think they've done enough to help women along." Or how about the more likely (but less P.C.) explanation : taking more time off work leads to well... less opportunities at work. As it arguably should be (because meritocracy) Is the alternative (artificially "correcting" pay gaps) really fair to other colleagues who worked their asses off ? I can understand the good intent but it's a slippery slope : is that also going to apply to men who decide to take time off for hobbies, or is it a female-only privilege btw ?

morbius 12y ago
Time off for hobbies and maternity leave are two very, very different things. Also, slippery slope arguments are considered so fallacious because they're often the most extreme visions of what will happen, when the most likely change will be very, very little. The same rhetoric was used to inhibit women's voting rights, but ended up being fallacious as well.
- undersuit 12y ago
  Are hobbies and child-rearing really that much different? Hobbies can be just as time consuming and expensive. Some hobbies can interfere with work in a long term way just like maternity leave. Really the similarity only falls part that maternity is sometimes not a choice... and I'd rather not open the can of worms that is abortion; let's just assume that just like a hobby, you have chosen this path.
  - karmakaze 12y ago
    One may also be 'exposed' to a hobby and their degree of involvement is not a choice.