4 ms·

Years ago, I was seriously involved in trolling, here's why: some people behaved in ways that I found painful, and I wanted to be as ugly to them as they were t

by b6 11y ago

Years ago, I was seriously involved in trolling, here's why: some people behaved in ways that I found painful, and I wanted to be as ugly to them as they were to me. Someone actually beat another person in the face over who would get to buy Tickle Me Elmo or the latest Harry Potter book? I found stuff like that really disgusting, and I wanted them to feel disgusted, too. I wanted them to think about how disgusting they were. Over the years, as I got a little better control over my mind and feelings, I stopped behaving like that. I realize now that my behavior was not constructive, and I'm sorry. But I couldn't just know what was at the end of that road without walking it. I think I'm extremely un-sadistic. If anything, I'm unusually empathetic. And I don't enjoy, much less need, attention. If anything, I'm unusually motivated by my internal self-assessment. I know from times when other members of the troll gang I was in would break character that I'm not the only (former) troll of this type. There seems to be an idea flying around lately that trolling is just a safe, cowardly way of being sadistic, but I find that really simplistic. In some cases trolling seems closer to a weird kind of performance art by people with surplus brain cycles, motivation, initiative, and creativity.

caminante 11y ago
I like your "performance art" comparison. The other day, a user posted a topic in a sub-forum I follow. I cited the sub-forum's criteria and recommended posting elsewhere. The admins agreed, killing the post. The user responded with floral appreciation for the admins stewardship and bowed out. Detecting something was off, I checked the user's post-history. I discovered he'd pivoted into this elaborate troll routine, crafting well-made Photoshopped summary screenshots, baiting the admins into commenting, then parsing and sub-parsing their comments with disregard for truth, all the while he cross-posted his progress with a "counter-culture" sub-forum to get their approval. It struck me as a lonely exercise for him, however, it seemed like he was seeking an outlet for his creativity. Looking back, it's almost as if what happened didn't even matter, he could/would run the same routine.
- brudgers 11y ago
  Flaming is often a creative exercise because it can mean writing with full consciousness of its effect on the audience. A lot of flaming behavior is generated in an effort to create interesting discussions in the midst of cliche or superficial analysis. In many communities flame wars are some of the most interesting content and that's why it becomes an acceptable pattern. One of the things I love about HN is that there are so many Really Fucking Smart People® with something interesting to say that flaming [along with inside jokes] constitutes some of the least interesting content. Indeed HN has even suppressed snark.
ThrustVectoring 11y ago
The performance art bit resonates with me. To a large extent, it was a way to play with how to elicit reactions from people. Do something interesting, get social feedback, use that cycle to build models of people. I think a big part of why trolling appealed to me is simply an appreciation of surreal humor and situations. As an example, secretly installing a bidet in the shared men's restroom. That, to me, is the positive way to behave trollishly - putting people in strange situations and seeing what happens.
A_COMPUTER 11y ago
You didn't say it explicitly, but I believe trolling does include a strong orientation toward justice and punishment. This isn't incompatible with empathy, but having empathy will change how the troll operates. There are definitely cowardly and sadistic trolls, but that's because Sturgeon's Law applies, 90% of everything is crap, including trolls, being abusive is the only tool in their toolbox. I'm making an assumption here, that some form of trolling is "good", but I'm ok with that. Throughout history some of the best writers trolled the shit out of their ideological opponents for the greater good without being anonymous or sadistic. Jonathan Swift, Sam Clemens, Socrates, etc.

by b6 11y ago

caminante 11y ago

I like your "performance art" comparison. The other day, a user posted a topic in a sub-forum I follow. I cited the sub-forum's criteria and recommended posting elsewhere. The admins agreed, killing the post. The user responded with floral appreciation for the admins stewardship and bowed out. Detecting something was off, I checked the user's post-history. I discovered he'd pivoted into this elaborate troll routine, crafting well-made Photoshopped summary screenshots, baiting the admins into commenting, then parsing and sub-parsing their comments with disregard for truth, all the while he cross-posted his progress with a "counter-culture" sub-forum to get their approval. It struck me as a lonely exercise for him, however, it seemed like he was seeking an outlet for his creativity. Looking back, it's almost as if what happened didn't even matter, he could/would run the same routine.

brudgers 11y ago
Flaming is often a creative exercise because it can mean writing with full consciousness of its effect on the audience. A lot of flaming behavior is generated in an effort to create interesting discussions in the midst of cliche or superficial analysis. In many communities flame wars are some of the most interesting content and that's why it becomes an acceptable pattern. One of the things I love about HN is that there are so many Really Fucking Smart People® with something interesting to say that flaming [along with inside jokes] constitutes some of the least interesting content. Indeed HN has even suppressed snark.

ThrustVectoring 11y ago

The performance art bit resonates with me. To a large extent, it was a way to play with how to elicit reactions from people. Do something interesting, get social feedback, use that cycle to build models of people. I think a big part of why trolling appealed to me is simply an appreciation of surreal humor and situations. As an example, secretly installing a bidet in the shared men's restroom. That, to me, is the positive way to behave trollishly - putting people in strange situations and seeing what happens.

A_COMPUTER 11y ago

You didn't say it explicitly, but I believe trolling does include a strong orientation toward justice and punishment. This isn't incompatible with empathy, but having empathy will change how the troll operates. There are definitely cowardly and sadistic trolls, but that's because Sturgeon's Law applies, 90% of everything is crap, including trolls, being abusive is the only tool in their toolbox. I'm making an assumption here, that some form of trolling is "good", but I'm ok with that. Throughout history some of the best writers trolled the shit out of their ideological opponents for the greater good without being anonymous or sadistic. Jonathan Swift, Sam Clemens, Socrates, etc.