3 ms·

The healthcare system is not a way for corrupt clerics to suck savings off of dying old people. Also, "conservatives" aren't getting rid of medicare any time s

The healthcare system is not a way for corrupt clerics to suck savings off of dying old people. Also, "conservatives" aren't getting rid of medicare any time soon, and you'll find that most would have a lot to say about how our healthcare system works and why it's expensive.

michaelochurch 12y ago
No, it's not a way for corrupt clerics to suck savings off of old dying people. We're not in the Wars of the Reformation anymore. It's a way for corporations to suck savings off of old dying people, and it works. Do you have anything more to say?
- pitt1980 12y ago
  this is actually a striking good analogy
rlucas 12y ago
I agree that the specific formulation that grandparent used is probably unnecessarily provocative, and also posits a measure of intent or malice aforethought. But re-read what he's written while thinking about the effect of our healthcare payment structures and policies, not necessarily the intent, and it makes some sense. The great bulk of healthcare costs are due to end-of-life and chronic condition care. Even if you don't think there are nefarious plotters sitting around scheming to rob old people's savings by billing them for outrageous healthcare, in effect, that is what Medicare is. It is a way to funnel money from everybody (or, everybody who is poor enough to make their money by earning wages under 100k) to people who bill for end of life and chronic care. The role of the old and dying in this scheme is as concentrated conduits for the capital to flow to the billers. (Billers, here, meaning providers but also the cut going to the payer/insurer/processing infrastructure as well as supplies, pharma, etc -- the medical/industrial complex if you will.) I'd also like to point out something that is little-known by the typical early- or mid-career, technologically savvy and well-employed HN poster (including may I say myself, before some family experiences clued me in otherwise): in the case of Medicaid, at least, the state puts a property lien on all assets of the beneficiary and tries to claw back amounts paid after the beneficiary's death. In other words, there really is a department in the state government that is in charge of taking title to a dead old person's house and car, and auctioning them off to repay amounts that the state had advanced to the medical-insurance complex on that person's behalf. So. When I think of that, and when I think of those TV ads that promise they can sell scooters to sickly oldsters who can little afford them except for a Medicare subsidy ... it has more than a mere echo of resonance with grandparent. In other words, much of the medical system sees "dying old people" as pretty instrumental for concentrating and slurping up cash, if not to say "suck[ing] savings off" of them.
- SamReidHughes 12y ago
  > It is a way to funnel money from everybody (or, everybody who is poor enough to make their money by earning wages under 100k) to people who bill for end of life and chronic care. You can say those words (modulo one hundred thousand) about many single-payer healthcare systems. It is not right to do this, to interpret medical systems under a cynicism maximization principle. It doesn't tell the Truth. After all, these services also provide concentrated conduits for medical care to flow to the citizens. > So. When I think of that, and when I think of those TV ads that promise they can sell scooters to sickly oldsters who can little afford them except for a Medicare subsidy I think those scooters greatly improve some people's quality of life. If you want to hear stories about companies trying to take advantage of medicare/medicaid, I could tell you quite a few myself -- I have a close relative that worked on the government side of things there.

michaelochurch 12y ago

No, it's not a way for corrupt clerics to suck savings off of old dying people. We're not in the Wars of the Reformation anymore. It's a way for corporations to suck savings off of old dying people, and it works. Do you have anything more to say?

pitt1980 12y ago
this is actually a striking good analogy

rlucas 12y ago

I agree that the specific formulation that grandparent used is probably unnecessarily provocative, and also posits a measure of intent or malice aforethought. But re-read what he's written while thinking about the effect of our healthcare payment structures and policies, not necessarily the intent, and it makes some sense. The great bulk of healthcare costs are due to end-of-life and chronic condition care. Even if you don't think there are nefarious plotters sitting around scheming to rob old people's savings by billing them for outrageous healthcare, in effect, that is what Medicare is. It is a way to funnel money from everybody (or, everybody who is poor enough to make their money by earning wages under 100k) to people who bill for end of life and chronic care. The role of the old and dying in this scheme is as concentrated conduits for the capital to flow to the billers. (Billers, here, meaning providers but also the cut going to the payer/insurer/processing infrastructure as well as supplies, pharma, etc -- the medical/industrial complex if you will.) I'd also like to point out something that is little-known by the typical early- or mid-career, technologically savvy and well-employed HN poster (including may I say myself, before some family experiences clued me in otherwise): in the case of Medicaid, at least, the state puts a property lien on all assets of the beneficiary and tries to claw back amounts paid after the beneficiary's death. In other words, there really is a department in the state government that is in charge of taking title to a dead old person's house and car, and auctioning them off to repay amounts that the state had advanced to the medical-insurance complex on that person's behalf. So. When I think of that, and when I think of those TV ads that promise they can sell scooters to sickly oldsters who can little afford them except for a Medicare subsidy ... it has more than a mere echo of resonance with grandparent. In other words, much of the medical system sees "dying old people" as pretty instrumental for concentrating and slurping up cash, if not to say "suck[ing] savings off" of them.

SamReidHughes 12y ago
> It is a way to funnel money from everybody (or, everybody who is poor enough to make their money by earning wages under 100k) to people who bill for end of life and chronic care. You can say those words (modulo one hundred thousand) about many single-payer healthcare systems. It is not right to do this, to interpret medical systems under a cynicism maximization principle. It doesn't tell the Truth. After all, these services also provide concentrated conduits for medical care to flow to the citizens. > So. When I think of that, and when I think of those TV ads that promise they can sell scooters to sickly oldsters who can little afford them except for a Medicare subsidy I think those scooters greatly improve some people's quality of life. If you want to hear stories about companies trying to take advantage of medicare/medicaid, I could tell you quite a few myself -- I have a close relative that worked on the government side of things there.