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What makes you think that the polygraph examiners "believe" in the machine. I'm pretty sure most of them don't. I wouldn't always assume good faith on the part

What makes you think that the polygraph examiners "believe" in the machine. I'm pretty sure most of them don't. I wouldn't always assume good faith on the part of the examiner, either. In the common use case of culling the herd of police job applicants, polygraph examiners are there to provide a way to arbitrarily reject certain applicants. So, in that case, the applicant basically has to make the examiner "like" him. It's better than "beating" a psychic medium because there is often a real, valuable prize to be gained (ie: a job). As far as I am concerned, even submitting to examination dignifies the procedure too much.

tptacek 12y ago
If the polygraph examiner doesn't believe in the machine and the candidate doesn't believe in the machine, I'm a little lost as to how the examiner has any advantage, or why you would need any special techniques to "beat" the process. To be clear: I don't think you do need those tactics, but I'm asking, not asserting; I've never taken a polygraph.
- nitrogen 12y ago
  Based on other comments in the thread and other things I've read, it seems like the polygraph machine serves only to intimidate the interviewee into wearing their emotions on their sleeve, and the real purpose of the polygrapher is to try to read body language. It also sounds like polygraphers may think they are reading someone, but in actuality just injecting their own bias. I have also never taken a polygraph, but maybe the process to beat is the bias of the interviewer, not the machine.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Right! So isn't it weird to see us proposing things like new tricks to beat the machine? What machine? Can't I just imagine it's a Magic 8 Ball instead? Would we propose tricks to beat a Magic 8 Ball? No!
    - kelseyfrancis 12y ago
      > What machine? Can't I just imagine it's a Magic 8 Ball instead? I mean, measuring perspiration, pulse, breathing, and movement is perhaps a step above a Magic 8 Ball. I too am entirely doubtful that anyone can reliably detect deceit with those measurements, but it's hard to have a nonchalant attitude of "this is just a silly game" when you're connected to devices that do in fact actually measure those things.
- Canada 12y ago
  The presence of the machine changes the nature of the interview. It's like how being interviewed on the phone at home and being interviewed handcuffed to a table with a gun your head are different. It really doesn't matter much if the interviewer actually intends to shoot you or not. The mere presence of the prop induces stress making it difficult to think clearly and avoid being manipulated by the interviewer. To succeed in the situation your mind must be prepared to deal with the gun or the handcuffs or the polygraph. I doubt many people are able to simply ignore them.
- rdtsc 12y ago
  The advantage is in them hoping you don't know that machine doesn't work. In fact they try to check for it. Like they might say things like "it looks like you pizza-ed on this one when you should-a frenchfried, ... hmm that's interesting'. Where say "pizza" and "frenchfry" are polygraph specific terminilogy. If you don't ask "hey what does that mean?" they might assume your read up on and research about how to beat polygraphs. And on your point of "what if I really don't believe in polygraphs". The problem is the polygraph measures involuntary emotional response. You might rationally not believe in efficacy of polygraphs. But emotionally you'd start breathing faster anyway. Maybe because you are afried the polygraph examiner will figure out that you really know how polygraphs work.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    So if that's the only advantage, I can ignore all sphincter-related advice, and the polygraph itself as well. I'm happy about that outcome, by the way!
encoderer 12y ago
> I'm pretty sure most of them don't. Curious.. Why so sure?

tptacek 12y ago

If the polygraph examiner doesn't believe in the machine and the candidate doesn't believe in the machine, I'm a little lost as to how the examiner has any advantage, or why you would need any special techniques to "beat" the process. To be clear: I don't think you do need those tactics, but I'm asking, not asserting; I've never taken a polygraph.

nitrogen 12y ago
Based on other comments in the thread and other things I've read, it seems like the polygraph machine serves only to intimidate the interviewee into wearing their emotions on their sleeve, and the real purpose of the polygrapher is to try to read body language. It also sounds like polygraphers may think they are reading someone, but in actuality just injecting their own bias. I have also never taken a polygraph, but maybe the process to beat is the bias of the interviewer, not the machine.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Right! So isn't it weird to see us proposing things like new tricks to beat the machine? What machine? Can't I just imagine it's a Magic 8 Ball instead? Would we propose tricks to beat a Magic 8 Ball? No!
  - kelseyfrancis 12y ago
    > What machine? Can't I just imagine it's a Magic 8 Ball instead? I mean, measuring perspiration, pulse, breathing, and movement is perhaps a step above a Magic 8 Ball. I too am entirely doubtful that anyone can reliably detect deceit with those measurements, but it's hard to have a nonchalant attitude of "this is just a silly game" when you're connected to devices that do in fact actually measure those things.
Canada 12y ago
The presence of the machine changes the nature of the interview. It's like how being interviewed on the phone at home and being interviewed handcuffed to a table with a gun your head are different. It really doesn't matter much if the interviewer actually intends to shoot you or not. The mere presence of the prop induces stress making it difficult to think clearly and avoid being manipulated by the interviewer. To succeed in the situation your mind must be prepared to deal with the gun or the handcuffs or the polygraph. I doubt many people are able to simply ignore them.
rdtsc 12y ago
The advantage is in them hoping you don't know that machine doesn't work. In fact they try to check for it. Like they might say things like "it looks like you pizza-ed on this one when you should-a frenchfried, ... hmm that's interesting'. Where say "pizza" and "frenchfry" are polygraph specific terminilogy. If you don't ask "hey what does that mean?" they might assume your read up on and research about how to beat polygraphs. And on your point of "what if I really don't believe in polygraphs". The problem is the polygraph measures involuntary emotional response. You might rationally not believe in efficacy of polygraphs. But emotionally you'd start breathing faster anyway. Maybe because you are afried the polygraph examiner will figure out that you really know how polygraphs work.
- tptacek 12y ago
  So if that's the only advantage, I can ignore all sphincter-related advice, and the polygraph itself as well. I'm happy about that outcome, by the way!

encoderer 12y ago

> I'm pretty sure most of them don't. Curious.. Why so sure?