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I disagree, and I think that polygraph tests filter out good people in favor of deceptive people and convincing liars. >For a lot of the work For a tiny fract

I disagree, and I think that polygraph tests filter out good people in favor of deceptive people and convincing liars. >For a lot of the work For a tiny fraction of the work. Maybe you underestimate the number of jobs that use this quackery.

a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
> deceptive people and convincing liars. My point is that to some extent this is actually a necessary skill. You absolutely don't want people who can't keep cool and put out a bit of smokescreen and do some hand waving.
- jcoffland 12y ago
  Now I understand how our government got to be so corrupt.
- sukilot 12y ago
  But most of polygraph gated jobs are boring office work related to (over)classified topics, not jobs that require deception.
aschampion 12y ago
The polygraph acts like the pot use question for many US law enforcement positions. People rightly recognize that it's absurd, but for the wrong reasons. It's not there to select for straight edge people who have never smoked up, but to select for people willing to bend the truth for the sake of making procedures have the expected outcomes. Law enforcement doesn't want the guy who feels compelled to cost himself a job by being honest about a roach when he was 14, not because he did something illegal, but because when asked on the stand whether he's confident evidence bag #14 never left his sight he's likely to let the truth get in the way of the legal machine. The polygraph foremost is a way to arbitrarily filter people for reasons that interviewer would rather not reveal, and secondly to select for people willing to put up with the theatrics of procedures while being indifferent to their supposed purpose.
- psykovsky 12y ago
  >> The polygraph foremost is a way to arbitrarily filter people for reasons that interviewer would rather not reveal, and secondly to select for people willing to put up with the theatrics of procedures while being indifferent to their supposed purpose. That... That was beautiful!
- MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
  I like your theory, but do you have any first hand knowledge or is this just logical reasoning?
- sukilot 12y ago
  That's a fine theory but it isn't the reality at all. The people using polygraphs don't have that level of conspiracy cleverness.
  - aschampion 12y ago
    Systemic bias doesn't require that everyone in the system (or even anyone in the system) be cognizant of the bias, only that the bias selects for qualities that will reinforce the same systemic processes. People that consent to polygraphs despite their obvious flaws and interact well with people willing to conduct them despite those same flaws are more likely to continue or encourage the use of polygraphs than others. It doesn't require conspiracy. At the same time, the continued use of polygraphs for so long given how public and documented their flaws are allows us to ask what actual selective function they are serving in the system. Besides institutional inertia, the only two compelling explanations are as a proxy for biases of the polygraph operators (which must play a part given that polygraphs are not deterministic, robust detection mechanisms) and as a selective pressure for people who don't have qualms with these types of systemic dysfunction.

a8da6b0c91d 12y ago

> deceptive people and convincing liars. My point is that to some extent this is actually a necessary skill. You absolutely don't want people who can't keep cool and put out a bit of smokescreen and do some hand waving.

jcoffland 12y ago
Now I understand how our government got to be so corrupt.
sukilot 12y ago
But most of polygraph gated jobs are boring office work related to (over)classified topics, not jobs that require deception.

aschampion 12y ago

The polygraph acts like the pot use question for many US law enforcement positions. People rightly recognize that it's absurd, but for the wrong reasons. It's not there to select for straight edge people who have never smoked up, but to select for people willing to bend the truth for the sake of making procedures have the expected outcomes. Law enforcement doesn't want the guy who feels compelled to cost himself a job by being honest about a roach when he was 14, not because he did something illegal, but because when asked on the stand whether he's confident evidence bag #14 never left his sight he's likely to let the truth get in the way of the legal machine. The polygraph foremost is a way to arbitrarily filter people for reasons that interviewer would rather not reveal, and secondly to select for people willing to put up with the theatrics of procedures while being indifferent to their supposed purpose.

psykovsky 12y ago
>> The polygraph foremost is a way to arbitrarily filter people for reasons that interviewer would rather not reveal, and secondly to select for people willing to put up with the theatrics of procedures while being indifferent to their supposed purpose. That... That was beautiful!
MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
I like your theory, but do you have any first hand knowledge or is this just logical reasoning?
sukilot 12y ago
That's a fine theory but it isn't the reality at all. The people using polygraphs don't have that level of conspiracy cleverness.
- aschampion 12y ago
  Systemic bias doesn't require that everyone in the system (or even anyone in the system) be cognizant of the bias, only that the bias selects for qualities that will reinforce the same systemic processes. People that consent to polygraphs despite their obvious flaws and interact well with people willing to conduct them despite those same flaws are more likely to continue or encourage the use of polygraphs than others. It doesn't require conspiracy. At the same time, the continued use of polygraphs for so long given how public and documented their flaws are allows us to ask what actual selective function they are serving in the system. Besides institutional inertia, the only two compelling explanations are as a proxy for biases of the polygraph operators (which must play a part given that polygraphs are not deterministic, robust detection mechanisms) and as a selective pressure for people who don't have qualms with these types of systemic dysfunction.