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I live in Europe and have never even considered getting a car. In cities the bike is the fastest mode of transport anyway, and for longer distances it's quite c

I live in Europe and have never even considered getting a car. In cities the bike is the fastest mode of transport anyway, and for longer distances it's quite convenient to take the train.

pkorzeniewski 11y ago
I live in Europe and I can't imagine not owning a car. My city has quite good public transportation, but the flexbility and independence of car wins all the time. Using bus+train it takes me 1h to get to work one way, while by car it takes me 15m, additionally I do grocery shopping and other things on the way home. Time saving isn't however the major reason, but the feeling that I can go whenever I want, wherever I want.
- more_original 11y ago
  Fair enough. What you describe sounds much like I feel about bikes. Taking the bus and train to work takes over 30 minutes, while the bike ride is just 10 minutes. Going by car would certainly take more than 10 minutes here. Someone once said to me that he feels amputated without a bike, which really hits the nail on the head.
- atirip 11y ago
  I live in Europe and i own a car, but don't use it to commute. It takes 10 minutes by bus and 15+ by car. Plus it takes min 10 EUR a day to park my car in the city. And the bus is free.
  - pmontra 11y ago
    Where do you live and have free buses?
    - emj 11y ago
      Residents of Tallinn doesn't pay for public transport in the city.
barrkel 11y ago
It's hard to beat a motorcycle over longer city distances, however. IMO a scooter is the best city transportation. I can pretty much get anywhere from anywhere in London in under 30 minutes. My commute from Victoria Park to Clerkenwell is 13 minutes. Google suggests 20 minutes to cycle; I reckon an athlete who ignored red lights could just about keep up, but they'd be sprinting in between the places they'd have to give way.
- lancewiggs 11y ago
  Electric bikes make that sprinting easy - so easy it feels like walking. I walk, (e)bike, motorbike and drive my car. Short trips are almost all bike now, car is for transport of large things and motorbike for longer trips.
  - peatmoss 11y ago
    As an urban planner (well, PhD student now), the utility of electric bikes strikes me as obscenely high. We know that the vast majority of urban trips are < 3 miles--with a goodly portion under 1. Yet, so many people make these trips by car. A bike is very much more efficient, and often much faster if there is any congestion. Electric bikes remove one major barrier people have, namely the arrive sweaty after a hill climb factor. I hear other bicyclists claim that this is less karmic because of exercise, but I view it differently. We know that, controlling for type of infrastructure, the prevalence of bicycling is strongly correlated with improved safety. The plausible explanation I subscribe to is that, with increased numbers, drivers are more accustomed to looking for bicyclists, and that bicyclists are better able to establish good group norms about how to ride safely. And of course increased numbers also mean that there is more political will to add more bicycling infrastructure, which in turn generates more bicycling. Electric assist bikes help with all aspects of this, with the exception of getting the maximum amount of exercise on every trip. I'd love to see a business model that figures out how to 1. create a desirable electric bike brand 2. Have a low-barrier-to-entry rental or lease mode 3. Handles maintenance in a frictionless, reassuring way--perhaps with roadside emergency support 4. Has great on boarding for how to ride safely and confidently, perhaps coordinating with local bike clubs for instruction and personalized route planning.
nawitus 11y ago
I live in Europe and while I can get around without a car, owning a car improves my standard of living quite a lot. I guess the point is "I live in Europe" says nothing about how easy it's to get by without owning a car.
- more_original 11y ago
  Yes, that was poorly worded. Europe is big. I meant to say that there are places (specifically in Europe), where it's perfectly possible to go through one's whole life without a owning car and without missing out.
jmspring 11y ago
My in-laws live in a village a bit outside Nuremberg. In the 11+ years visiting them on a regular basis, I've seen the closing of small markets in favor of US style supermarkets. These stores are often further outside the town/city center. What was walkable becomes less so. I've seen a similar trend where my brother-in-law lives outside Munich as well as some other towns where friends are. For things like commuting, the train can make some sense, but for short trips to a market that is no longer walkable? A car may be more desirable.

I live in Europe and have never even considered getting a car. In cities the bike is the fastest mode of transport anyway, and for longer distances it's quite convenient to take the train.

pkorzeniewski 11y ago

I live in Europe and I can't imagine not owning a car. My city has quite good public transportation, but the flexbility and independence of car wins all the time. Using bus+train it takes me 1h to get to work one way, while by car it takes me 15m, additionally I do grocery shopping and other things on the way home. Time saving isn't however the major reason, but the feeling that I can go whenever I want, wherever I want.

more_original 11y ago
Fair enough. What you describe sounds much like I feel about bikes. Taking the bus and train to work takes over 30 minutes, while the bike ride is just 10 minutes. Going by car would certainly take more than 10 minutes here. Someone once said to me that he feels amputated without a bike, which really hits the nail on the head.
atirip 11y ago
I live in Europe and i own a car, but don't use it to commute. It takes 10 minutes by bus and 15+ by car. Plus it takes min 10 EUR a day to park my car in the city. And the bus is free.
- pmontra 11y ago
  Where do you live and have free buses?
  - emj 11y ago
    Residents of Tallinn doesn't pay for public transport in the city.

barrkel 11y ago

It's hard to beat a motorcycle over longer city distances, however. IMO a scooter is the best city transportation. I can pretty much get anywhere from anywhere in London in under 30 minutes. My commute from Victoria Park to Clerkenwell is 13 minutes. Google suggests 20 minutes to cycle; I reckon an athlete who ignored red lights could just about keep up, but they'd be sprinting in between the places they'd have to give way.

lancewiggs 11y ago
Electric bikes make that sprinting easy - so easy it feels like walking. I walk, (e)bike, motorbike and drive my car. Short trips are almost all bike now, car is for transport of large things and motorbike for longer trips.
- peatmoss 11y ago
  As an urban planner (well, PhD student now), the utility of electric bikes strikes me as obscenely high. We know that the vast majority of urban trips are < 3 miles--with a goodly portion under 1. Yet, so many people make these trips by car. A bike is very much more efficient, and often much faster if there is any congestion. Electric bikes remove one major barrier people have, namely the arrive sweaty after a hill climb factor. I hear other bicyclists claim that this is less karmic because of exercise, but I view it differently. We know that, controlling for type of infrastructure, the prevalence of bicycling is strongly correlated with improved safety. The plausible explanation I subscribe to is that, with increased numbers, drivers are more accustomed to looking for bicyclists, and that bicyclists are better able to establish good group norms about how to ride safely. And of course increased numbers also mean that there is more political will to add more bicycling infrastructure, which in turn generates more bicycling. Electric assist bikes help with all aspects of this, with the exception of getting the maximum amount of exercise on every trip. I'd love to see a business model that figures out how to 1. create a desirable electric bike brand 2. Have a low-barrier-to-entry rental or lease mode 3. Handles maintenance in a frictionless, reassuring way--perhaps with roadside emergency support 4. Has great on boarding for how to ride safely and confidently, perhaps coordinating with local bike clubs for instruction and personalized route planning.

nawitus 11y ago

I live in Europe and while I can get around without a car, owning a car improves my standard of living quite a lot. I guess the point is "I live in Europe" says nothing about how easy it's to get by without owning a car.

more_original 11y ago
Yes, that was poorly worded. Europe is big. I meant to say that there are places (specifically in Europe), where it's perfectly possible to go through one's whole life without a owning car and without missing out.

jmspring 11y ago

My in-laws live in a village a bit outside Nuremberg. In the 11+ years visiting them on a regular basis, I've seen the closing of small markets in favor of US style supermarkets. These stores are often further outside the town/city center. What was walkable becomes less so. I've seen a similar trend where my brother-in-law lives outside Munich as well as some other towns where friends are. For things like commuting, the train can make some sense, but for short trips to a market that is no longer walkable? A car may be more desirable.