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I find it interesting that the author infers that Indonesia low drug (4% of population), compared to higher drug use in Europe and America, should preclude the

I find it interesting that the author infers that Indonesia low drug (4% of population), compared to higher drug use in Europe and America, should preclude the from taking a tough stance to prevent drugs abuse from becoming an epidemic. On the contrary, we should applaud Indonesia for having a system that keeps drug use at low levels.

kiba 12y ago
How do you know that the extremely harsh penalty is what results in low drug use?
- waldo504 12y ago
  I don't know, but I sure would think twice about being involved in drug trafficking if the consequence was death. If most people think that way, then the access to drugs would be much lower.
  - pan69 12y ago
    Trafficking drug is not something you do because it sounds like a cool thing to do. Pretty much anyone who's trafficking drugs are in a desperate situation one way or another and they are being taking advantage of. Some people do it for the money yet others are not in a situation were they actually understand the consequences (youth is one of them). We all make mistakes in our lives and most of us are not the same persons we were before we made those mistakes. Your reasoning is misguided.
pan69 12y ago
I don't think that's what the article is about. What I read was about a President who to eager to please a population with a sense of national pride. Indonesia, being a former colony, has obviously a low self esteem and only seem to be able to be ruled by some sort of iron fist which has to show the world that they are really smart, clever and "sovereign". Whether or not the death penalty should have been applied and whether or not this "cures" the drug problem is not really the discussion (I believe). That a small group of people had to sacrifice their lives for political gain, and to prove a point, seems to be a more interesting discussion here. I certainly hope Widodo and his henchmen will be brought in front of an international court to clarify themselves over this.
- DominikR 12y ago
  "That a small group of people had to sacrifice their lives for political gain" They didn't "sacrifice" their lives, they were drug dealers and found guilty by the courts in Indonesia. There's nothing heroic about dying for this cause. Furthermore it is widely known that Indonesia executes drug dealers no matter where they happen to come from and the Australians surely have known about this "business risk". I'm against the death penalty but I recognize that I have no say about Indonesian laws. This is their own sovereign decision to make. If you don't like this then don't try to sell/import crystal meth or heroin in Indonesia.
  - pavlov 12y ago
    There's always a risk of a false positive. People get framed. Police or prosecutors may be corrupt or just pushing for a harsh sentence on shoddy evidence. Judges may be looking to please elected officials who want strong penalties handed out in order to set an example. The latter seems to be happening in Egypt. People are being sentenced to death en masse, hundreds in a single judicial session, on vague charges of rioting: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/04/egyptians-react-mass-death-sentence-201442951751626248.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/04/egyptians-r... There are wrongly convicted people on American death rows: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32178121 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32178121 The death penalty opens a door for the darkest kind of abuse by states against their people. It should not be used as punishment anywhere.
  - gaelian 12y ago
    It is however, quite hypocritical that Indonesia has lobbied for their own citizens to be taken off death row in other countries[1] yet they refuse the same for foreigners in Indonesia. I don't disagree with you that the Australians must have known the risks and they chose to go ahead anyway, that was stupid. It is also Indonessia's perogative to enforce their chosen laws as they see fit. But there are political reasons why this whole situation has gone down the way it did, and those reasons are more to do with certain Indonesian politicians wanting to look like strong men in front of their electorates and the international community than it is about any specifics of this case with the Australians in particular. 1. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/indonesia-got-its-own-citizens-off-death-row-but-aussie-bali-nine-duo-still-await-execution/story-fni0cx12-1227252877434?nk=a481bd1d80ca967407b76ee2af592263 http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/indonesia-got-its-...

kiba 12y ago

How do you know that the extremely harsh penalty is what results in low drug use?

waldo504 12y ago
I don't know, but I sure would think twice about being involved in drug trafficking if the consequence was death. If most people think that way, then the access to drugs would be much lower.
- pan69 12y ago
  Trafficking drug is not something you do because it sounds like a cool thing to do. Pretty much anyone who's trafficking drugs are in a desperate situation one way or another and they are being taking advantage of. Some people do it for the money yet others are not in a situation were they actually understand the consequences (youth is one of them). We all make mistakes in our lives and most of us are not the same persons we were before we made those mistakes. Your reasoning is misguided.

pan69 12y ago

I don't think that's what the article is about. What I read was about a President who to eager to please a population with a sense of national pride. Indonesia, being a former colony, has obviously a low self esteem and only seem to be able to be ruled by some sort of iron fist which has to show the world that they are really smart, clever and "sovereign". Whether or not the death penalty should have been applied and whether or not this "cures" the drug problem is not really the discussion (I believe). That a small group of people had to sacrifice their lives for political gain, and to prove a point, seems to be a more interesting discussion here. I certainly hope Widodo and his henchmen will be brought in front of an international court to clarify themselves over this.

DominikR 12y ago
"That a small group of people had to sacrifice their lives for political gain" They didn't "sacrifice" their lives, they were drug dealers and found guilty by the courts in Indonesia. There's nothing heroic about dying for this cause. Furthermore it is widely known that Indonesia executes drug dealers no matter where they happen to come from and the Australians surely have known about this "business risk". I'm against the death penalty but I recognize that I have no say about Indonesian laws. This is their own sovereign decision to make. If you don't like this then don't try to sell/import crystal meth or heroin in Indonesia.
- pavlov 12y ago
  There's always a risk of a false positive. People get framed. Police or prosecutors may be corrupt or just pushing for a harsh sentence on shoddy evidence. Judges may be looking to please elected officials who want strong penalties handed out in order to set an example. The latter seems to be happening in Egypt. People are being sentenced to death en masse, hundreds in a single judicial session, on vague charges of rioting: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/04/egyptians-react-mass-death-sentence-201442951751626248.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/04/egyptians-r... There are wrongly convicted people on American death rows: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32178121 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32178121 The death penalty opens a door for the darkest kind of abuse by states against their people. It should not be used as punishment anywhere.
- gaelian 12y ago
  It is however, quite hypocritical that Indonesia has lobbied for their own citizens to be taken off death row in other countries[1] yet they refuse the same for foreigners in Indonesia. I don't disagree with you that the Australians must have known the risks and they chose to go ahead anyway, that was stupid. It is also Indonessia's perogative to enforce their chosen laws as they see fit. But there are political reasons why this whole situation has gone down the way it did, and those reasons are more to do with certain Indonesian politicians wanting to look like strong men in front of their electorates and the international community than it is about any specifics of this case with the Australians in particular. 1. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/indonesia-got-its-own-citizens-off-death-row-but-aussie-bali-nine-duo-still-await-execution/story-fni0cx12-1227252877434?nk=a481bd1d80ca967407b76ee2af592263 http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/indonesia-got-its-...