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Isn't that a bit like saying "if you want to change politics, go for it, it is your political parties". There is so much entrenched interests in most of these s

Isn't that a bit like saying "if you want to change politics, go for it, it is your political parties". There is so much entrenched interests in most of these structures that it is really hard changing them. You could start a new one, but it is quite a lot of work.

Frondo 12y ago
Yes, changing any preexisting system requires effort. It requires more than showing up one day and saying, "Here are my ideas, they are better than what you do, everyone do what I say now." That doesn't mean it's impossible, just that it requires skills and efforts that us technical types often aren't very good at--listening to people, understanding their motivations, and looking for common ground and compromises. Then acting on that persuasively, to get people to go along with your ideas. It's tough. Impossible? Absolutely not. It can be done.
- icebraining 12y ago
  But the point is that, right now, there's no such obstacle to overcome; saying that "it's not impossible" is exactly not an argument in favor of introducing unions.
  - Frondo 12y ago
    Well, yes, and the workers in the tech industry continue to suffer from a lack of the benefits unions bring, including better pay and protection against being fired capriciously. Remember the Adria Richards thing, how some guy lost his job? Having a union-back disciplinary process in place would have put a stop to that, you know.
    - icebraining 12y ago
      (I'm sorry people are downvoting your post) I do remember the Adria Richards thing, but as far as I know, it's not exactly a widespread issue in the industry. Regarding pay, it's not clear to me that it would solve the capping/fixing issue. Even with the no-poaching agreement, developer salaries are usually pretty high in those companies (especially for employees worthy of being poached). Would union rates really be higher than what they're already getting? I doubt it.

Frondo 12y ago

Yes, changing any preexisting system requires effort. It requires more than showing up one day and saying, "Here are my ideas, they are better than what you do, everyone do what I say now." That doesn't mean it's impossible, just that it requires skills and efforts that us technical types often aren't very good at--listening to people, understanding their motivations, and looking for common ground and compromises. Then acting on that persuasively, to get people to go along with your ideas. It's tough. Impossible? Absolutely not. It can be done.

icebraining 12y ago
But the point is that, right now, there's no such obstacle to overcome; saying that "it's not impossible" is exactly not an argument in favor of introducing unions.
- Frondo 12y ago
  Well, yes, and the workers in the tech industry continue to suffer from a lack of the benefits unions bring, including better pay and protection against being fired capriciously. Remember the Adria Richards thing, how some guy lost his job? Having a union-back disciplinary process in place would have put a stop to that, you know.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    (I'm sorry people are downvoting your post) I do remember the Adria Richards thing, but as far as I know, it's not exactly a widespread issue in the industry. Regarding pay, it's not clear to me that it would solve the capping/fixing issue. Even with the no-poaching agreement, developer salaries are usually pretty high in those companies (especially for employees worthy of being poached). Would union rates really be higher than what they're already getting? I doubt it.