5 ms·

"Try to hire people you could become friends with" seems like a really bad idea from the discrimination point of view, since people are most likely to view some

by kens 12y ago

"Try to hire people you could become friends with" seems like a really bad idea from the discrimination point of view, since people are most likely to view someone of the same race, age, and gender as a potential friend.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
gaius 12y ago
Regardless of gender or ethnicity, if everyone you hire is a 20-something graduate of the same top-10 CS programmes what you get is... Google+ (or Wave or Buzz...) Diversity means you don't get trapped in an echo chamber.
- formulaT 12y ago
  or maybe it means you get Gmail, Google Web Search, Google Apps, Android and Chrome. Seems like you are using very selective evidence there, or selectively attributing only unsuccessful products to lack of diversity.
- ThomPete 12y ago
  Wave was not by a 20-something but by a 40-something. Age has nothing to do with that (the 40-something that lead Wave also created Maps)
  - eru 12y ago
    And Wave was pretty cool. As a startup it might have even succeeded.
wiggumz 12y ago
"You try to hire people you could become friends with" is a profoundly stupid maxim. People who come from conservative and religious societies will always be pressured by friends to not make new friends who are of different ethnicities. Thiel is basically ensuring each company Will become a little Island of segregation and this is what I have seen in the bay area: companies that are 90% Indian, 90% Chinese, or 90% white guys.
- feybay 12y ago
  I come from a conservative background and I've never been discouraged from hanging out with different ethnicities and cultures. We are not the strawmen you apparently think we are.
  - sambull 12y ago
    Conversely when a few of my friends family found out I was an atheist they were no longer allowed to associate with me. A select few tried to convert me, others acted outright vitriolic towards me. This was in a major metro in CA. Romantic relationships have also ended in the past when family members couldn't get over my lack of faith.
- saryant 12y ago
  I come from an incredibly conservative family (literally had pictures of Reagan and Cheney on the wall) and they had no problems with my engagement to an Hispanic woman.
  - czep 12y ago
    Yes but how would they react to your sister dating a black man?
- siphor 12y ago
  ya'll are taking this maxim and removing it from the context of hiring. I thought it was obvious he meant, you want someone capable and someone you could be friends with. It's not supposed to be a maxim, it's from an interview.
- natecavanaugh 12y ago
  Speaking as a white American from a very conservative/religious family and social group, I think your view is just as generalized as you imagine conservative/religious groups to be. I have multiple aunts and uncles who are Korean, my first serious girlfriend was black, my best friend growing up was Mexican (as well as having many Mexican relatives), so I would say that our conservative and religious views didn't preclude us from not only being open to other ethnicities, but to embracing them as our own. Granted, I don't think my upbringing was typical of conservative/religious upbringings, but I know it wasn't typical of many liberal/non-religious points of view. I don't think it's something you can shoehorn quite like that. (I would say our religion brought us all together more than anything else). I think the effect you're seeing (where many Asians, such as Chinese, Korean, or Indian) are more isolated has far less to do with idealogical beliefs, than it does with multiple factors, such as being immigrants in a country that has typically has had a harder time identifying with their culture as well as a large trend of pushing towards higher education, especially in demanding fields such as medicine and engineering. But I digress :)
BurningFrog 12y ago
Hiring indiscriminately doesn't sound so great either.
hliyan 12y ago
I think this advice was given with the assumption that the receiver is an intelligent human being.
- modfodder 12y ago
  There are many intelligent human beings who suffer from many forms of gender and/or race bias. Our very nature as humans is to surround ourselves with people who look, act, and think like us. Hiring people that could be your friends without having the insight to get beyond the inherent bias in all of us could very easily lead to a corporate structure that is extremely myopic. Not that it won't be successful, just ends up looking like Stepford Corp, look at the boardrooms of the Fortune 500 for many examples.
  - vonklaus 12y ago
    Hiring someone for the sake of diversity is absolutely stupid. Also, not sure what you are on about? The advice is to hire someone who you could get a beer or shoot a game of pool with after work and carry a non-awkward conversation and talk about overlapping interests. A person of any gender or nationality could potentially fit this bill.
    - modfodder 12y ago
      Not sure what part of bias you don't understand or that we as humans tend to congregate with those that are like us. All things being equal but race, a white male will tend to hire the white male, even if he could equally socialize with a candidate of another gender or race. That is why I pointed out that it is best to have the "insight to get beyond the inherent bias in all of us", so we could see that maybe grabbing a beer with someone who doesn't look like us is equally viable. Hiring for the sake of diversity is less stupid than hiring just because you like the same team or drink the same beer, that behavior should have been left at the frat house after you graduated.
alexqgb 12y ago
I wouldn't say it's stupid so much as variable in its value. Some people are naturally attracted to a wide variety of people, ideas, experiences, and so on. For them, following this advice is likely to turn out well. For others, with narrower horizons, results will be a bit more mixed.
pcurve 12y ago
It is, but I think it's no more discriminatory than yardsticks that people use to hire and promote people in today's work place. We'd like to think that we're objective, but if you look at the kind of people that get hired and promoted, they all fit certain type of molds, especially personality.
prostoalex 12y ago
I don't think "friend" is meant in the context of "someone that you would invite to hang out at a local bar to get some wings, beer, and watch the game". It's more of "a person whose unique experience, drive and motivation can teach you something and who's pleasant and educational to be around in circumstances outside of employment contract".

by kens 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

gaius 12y ago

Regardless of gender or ethnicity, if everyone you hire is a 20-something graduate of the same top-10 CS programmes what you get is... Google+ (or Wave or Buzz...) Diversity means you don't get trapped in an echo chamber.

formulaT 12y ago
or maybe it means you get Gmail, Google Web Search, Google Apps, Android and Chrome. Seems like you are using very selective evidence there, or selectively attributing only unsuccessful products to lack of diversity.
ThomPete 12y ago
Wave was not by a 20-something but by a 40-something. Age has nothing to do with that (the 40-something that lead Wave also created Maps)
- eru 12y ago
  And Wave was pretty cool. As a startup it might have even succeeded.

wiggumz 12y ago

"You try to hire people you could become friends with" is a profoundly stupid maxim. People who come from conservative and religious societies will always be pressured by friends to not make new friends who are of different ethnicities. Thiel is basically ensuring each company Will become a little Island of segregation and this is what I have seen in the bay area: companies that are 90% Indian, 90% Chinese, or 90% white guys.

feybay 12y ago
I come from a conservative background and I've never been discouraged from hanging out with different ethnicities and cultures. We are not the strawmen you apparently think we are.
- sambull 12y ago
  Conversely when a few of my friends family found out I was an atheist they were no longer allowed to associate with me. A select few tried to convert me, others acted outright vitriolic towards me. This was in a major metro in CA. Romantic relationships have also ended in the past when family members couldn't get over my lack of faith.
saryant 12y ago
I come from an incredibly conservative family (literally had pictures of Reagan and Cheney on the wall) and they had no problems with my engagement to an Hispanic woman.
- czep 12y ago
  Yes but how would they react to your sister dating a black man?
siphor 12y ago
ya'll are taking this maxim and removing it from the context of hiring. I thought it was obvious he meant, you want someone capable and someone you could be friends with. It's not supposed to be a maxim, it's from an interview.
natecavanaugh 12y ago
Speaking as a white American from a very conservative/religious family and social group, I think your view is just as generalized as you imagine conservative/religious groups to be. I have multiple aunts and uncles who are Korean, my first serious girlfriend was black, my best friend growing up was Mexican (as well as having many Mexican relatives), so I would say that our conservative and religious views didn't preclude us from not only being open to other ethnicities, but to embracing them as our own. Granted, I don't think my upbringing was typical of conservative/religious upbringings, but I know it wasn't typical of many liberal/non-religious points of view. I don't think it's something you can shoehorn quite like that. (I would say our religion brought us all together more than anything else). I think the effect you're seeing (where many Asians, such as Chinese, Korean, or Indian) are more isolated has far less to do with idealogical beliefs, than it does with multiple factors, such as being immigrants in a country that has typically has had a harder time identifying with their culture as well as a large trend of pushing towards higher education, especially in demanding fields such as medicine and engineering. But I digress :)

BurningFrog 12y ago

Hiring indiscriminately doesn't sound so great either.

hliyan 12y ago

I think this advice was given with the assumption that the receiver is an intelligent human being.

modfodder 12y ago
There are many intelligent human beings who suffer from many forms of gender and/or race bias. Our very nature as humans is to surround ourselves with people who look, act, and think like us. Hiring people that could be your friends without having the insight to get beyond the inherent bias in all of us could very easily lead to a corporate structure that is extremely myopic. Not that it won't be successful, just ends up looking like Stepford Corp, look at the boardrooms of the Fortune 500 for many examples.
- vonklaus 12y ago
  Hiring someone for the sake of diversity is absolutely stupid. Also, not sure what you are on about? The advice is to hire someone who you could get a beer or shoot a game of pool with after work and carry a non-awkward conversation and talk about overlapping interests. A person of any gender or nationality could potentially fit this bill.
  - modfodder 12y ago
    Not sure what part of bias you don't understand or that we as humans tend to congregate with those that are like us. All things being equal but race, a white male will tend to hire the white male, even if he could equally socialize with a candidate of another gender or race. That is why I pointed out that it is best to have the "insight to get beyond the inherent bias in all of us", so we could see that maybe grabbing a beer with someone who doesn't look like us is equally viable. Hiring for the sake of diversity is less stupid than hiring just because you like the same team or drink the same beer, that behavior should have been left at the frat house after you graduated.

alexqgb 12y ago

I wouldn't say it's stupid so much as variable in its value. Some people are naturally attracted to a wide variety of people, ideas, experiences, and so on. For them, following this advice is likely to turn out well. For others, with narrower horizons, results will be a bit more mixed.

pcurve 12y ago

It is, but I think it's no more discriminatory than yardsticks that people use to hire and promote people in today's work place. We'd like to think that we're objective, but if you look at the kind of people that get hired and promoted, they all fit certain type of molds, especially personality.

prostoalex 12y ago

I don't think "friend" is meant in the context of "someone that you would invite to hang out at a local bar to get some wings, beer, and watch the game". It's more of "a person whose unique experience, drive and motivation can teach you something and who's pleasant and educational to be around in circumstances outside of employment contract".