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The Ars Technica article on this - http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/05/01/googles-dart-language-on-android-aims-for-java-free-120-fps-apps/ http://arstechnic

The Ars Technica article on this - http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/05/01/googles-dart-language-on-android-aims-for-java-free-120-fps-apps/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/05/01/googles-dart-langu... - has a worrying comment: ...the majority of the app is served over HTTP, allowing for continuous deployment where everyone always runs the newest version. URLs are a base layer of DART, so everything is internet aware. The downside to this is that the demo app doesn't work when you're offline, and starting the app takes a second or two because it needs to download data. So this is effectively a permanent 'wget |sh' kind of system? Sign me up!

russell_h 12y ago
Like a web browser?
- joosters 12y ago
  My web browser doesn't have many permissions to access my data (texts, contacts, location etc) - apps, on the other hand, may have a wide range of permissions and so are open to abuse.
  - evv 12y ago
    Your web browser runs the apps that contain all of your data, like gmail, google maps, facebook, etc. If your browser doesn't correctly sandbox each site, then vast swaths of your data would be compromised. Web browsers have the ability to use your location information, microphone, camera, and local storage. Plus the web browser is almost always running. You may not realize it, but you already trust your web browser to protect you and safely dole out permissions. Why would a next-gen application environment be any different?
    - joosters 12y ago
      Because the web browser is heavily tested and vetted, and I trust it. Whereas some apps I only trust because they have been given some (albeit maybe minimal) checking and validation prior to being allowed onto an app store. If the app I use changes under my feet with no way for me to control that, then I can't see any way of trusting the app.
    - tdkl 12y ago
      > Web browsers have the ability to use your location information, microphone, camera, and local storage. Plus the web browser is almost always running. You don't permit browser access to all that when you visit a internet page. You do on Android if you want to install an app.
tosh 12y ago
You forgot to quote the next sentence: "Both of these could be solved with caching, though." Sounds like it is up to you if the app you deploy to the app store will have this ability or not or on which side of the spectrum you want to be. When you look at the Facebook app (or other popular apps) they've found ways to 'update' parts of the application (or behave differently eg for a/b testing of new functionality) without the user having to download a new version.
- joosters 12y ago
  Yup. It's up to 'you' - you being the app writer. The poor shmuck who downloads the app has no choice or control over it.
  - evv 12y ago
    What web browser do you use? It probably updates itself on a regular basis. Do you use any web apps? Those are updated and re-downloaded regularly, depending on how the app is built. If you use an Android or iOS-based device, the software on it often becomes out-of-date and requires an upgrade in order to restore and improve functionality. The app writers should have such control. The 'poor shmucks' have as much power as always in this ecosystem, because they can choose what apps they want to trust and use.
    - joosters 12y ago
      I'm looking at this from Android, as that's the initial target and discussion here. If I download an app from Google's app store, I have some confidence that the app is well behaved and has been checked for obvious malware... But if the app depends on remote code that can change when it likes, how can I ever be confident in using that app and granting it permissions?
      - choudanu4 12y ago
        In the Dart Conference talk, they mention that sky apps (DART apps on Android) are given access to ever permission the system gives them. These system given permissions will almost definitely work in the Play-store way (as opposed to asking whenever it is required, a la website style).
deleted 12y ago
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myko 12y ago
I assume the final apk to be released would actually package the Dart code/server within itself? Kind of like React Native.

russell_h 12y ago

Like a web browser?

joosters 12y ago
My web browser doesn't have many permissions to access my data (texts, contacts, location etc) - apps, on the other hand, may have a wide range of permissions and so are open to abuse.
- evv 12y ago
  Your web browser runs the apps that contain all of your data, like gmail, google maps, facebook, etc. If your browser doesn't correctly sandbox each site, then vast swaths of your data would be compromised. Web browsers have the ability to use your location information, microphone, camera, and local storage. Plus the web browser is almost always running. You may not realize it, but you already trust your web browser to protect you and safely dole out permissions. Why would a next-gen application environment be any different?
  - joosters 12y ago
    Because the web browser is heavily tested and vetted, and I trust it. Whereas some apps I only trust because they have been given some (albeit maybe minimal) checking and validation prior to being allowed onto an app store. If the app I use changes under my feet with no way for me to control that, then I can't see any way of trusting the app.
  - tdkl 12y ago
    > Web browsers have the ability to use your location information, microphone, camera, and local storage. Plus the web browser is almost always running. You don't permit browser access to all that when you visit a internet page. You do on Android if you want to install an app.

tosh 12y ago

You forgot to quote the next sentence: "Both of these could be solved with caching, though." Sounds like it is up to you if the app you deploy to the app store will have this ability or not or on which side of the spectrum you want to be. When you look at the Facebook app (or other popular apps) they've found ways to 'update' parts of the application (or behave differently eg for a/b testing of new functionality) without the user having to download a new version.

joosters 12y ago
Yup. It's up to 'you' - you being the app writer. The poor shmuck who downloads the app has no choice or control over it.
- evv 12y ago
  What web browser do you use? It probably updates itself on a regular basis. Do you use any web apps? Those are updated and re-downloaded regularly, depending on how the app is built. If you use an Android or iOS-based device, the software on it often becomes out-of-date and requires an upgrade in order to restore and improve functionality. The app writers should have such control. The 'poor shmucks' have as much power as always in this ecosystem, because they can choose what apps they want to trust and use.
  - joosters 12y ago
    I'm looking at this from Android, as that's the initial target and discussion here. If I download an app from Google's app store, I have some confidence that the app is well behaved and has been checked for obvious malware... But if the app depends on remote code that can change when it likes, how can I ever be confident in using that app and granting it permissions?
    - choudanu4 12y ago
      In the Dart Conference talk, they mention that sky apps (DART apps on Android) are given access to ever permission the system gives them. These system given permissions will almost definitely work in the Play-store way (as opposed to asking whenever it is required, a la website style).

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

myko 12y ago

I assume the final apk to be released would actually package the Dart code/server within itself? Kind of like React Native.