3 ms·

HipHop doesn't support the entirety of the PHP runtime for exactly the reasons that have been laid out for you. That's reality from a company with a shitton of

HipHop doesn't support the entirety of the PHP runtime for exactly the reasons that have been laid out for you. That's reality from a company with a shitton of money and a vested interest in doing it successfully. They can't do it in the general case because reality disagrees with you.

coldtea 11y ago
Not sure what are you getting at. What I didn't say: transpiling is magic fairy dust for speed, and you don't have to care about language semantics at all. What I said: "unless done badly" (my words on the original comment), it's fast, as it gives you a chance to emit straightfoward C code for most operations. Now, regarding your example: First, HipHop is not transpiled to C. It's a runtime with a JIT. Second, what does "HipHop not supporting the entirety of the PHP runtime" has to do with anything? I take it you mean that the fact they had to skip some parts of the runtime for increased speed, proves something related to what I wrote. But (besides the JIT thing) PHP is not greenfield like Nim. They have a runtime, and it has to work in a certain way. PHP wasn't designed with transpiling in mind, and HipHop had to follow it closely as a design goal. I never said runtime decisions you have to mimic to be 100% compatible can't slow you down.
- mreiland 11y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_for_PHP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_for_PHP > HipHop for PHP (HPHPc) is a PHP transpiler created by Facebook. By using HPHPc as a source-to-source compiler, PHP code is translated into C++, compiled into a binary and run as an executable, as opposed to the PHP's usual execution path of PHP code being transformed into opcodes and interpreted.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    OK, I had in mind the JITed HipHop VM that they tout now (later development it seems). Still, how does the original version of HipHop as a transpiling compiler invalidate what I said? I said (check my original comment): unless you do it badly, transpiling to C gets you to run faster, because it lets you translate most operations to straightforward and fast C code. And that's exactly the logic they followed and what they achieved: they transpiled PHP to C, as opposed from running it with PHPs runtime interpreter, in order to make it faster, and it worked. That they skipped some parts of PHP runtime behavior/semantics, which if they didn't it would slow things down, doesn't clash with what I said. In fact it's already covered in my comment: "it let's you translate MOST" (not all) operations to fast C code.
    - mreiland 11y ago
      > transpiling to C gets you to run faster You're changing the context. > while being fast since it's compiled to C. - them > being compiled to C doesn't imply fast :) - me > Unless done badly, it does. - you You've switched to "faster" because it's a more defensible position, but that isn't the idea that was originally being responded to. That's why jerf said the following, emphasis mine: > No, it doesn't. You could easily compile Python into C (basically, "just" inline the core interpreter loop), __but it will still be slow__

coldtea 11y ago

Not sure what are you getting at. What I didn't say: transpiling is magic fairy dust for speed, and you don't have to care about language semantics at all. What I said: "unless done badly" (my words on the original comment), it's fast, as it gives you a chance to emit straightfoward C code for most operations. Now, regarding your example: First, HipHop is not transpiled to C. It's a runtime with a JIT. Second, what does "HipHop not supporting the entirety of the PHP runtime" has to do with anything? I take it you mean that the fact they had to skip some parts of the runtime for increased speed, proves something related to what I wrote. But (besides the JIT thing) PHP is not greenfield like Nim. They have a runtime, and it has to work in a certain way. PHP wasn't designed with transpiling in mind, and HipHop had to follow it closely as a design goal. I never said runtime decisions you have to mimic to be 100% compatible can't slow you down.

mreiland 11y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_for_PHP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_for_PHP > HipHop for PHP (HPHPc) is a PHP transpiler created by Facebook. By using HPHPc as a source-to-source compiler, PHP code is translated into C++, compiled into a binary and run as an executable, as opposed to the PHP's usual execution path of PHP code being transformed into opcodes and interpreted.
- coldtea 11y ago
  OK, I had in mind the JITed HipHop VM that they tout now (later development it seems). Still, how does the original version of HipHop as a transpiling compiler invalidate what I said? I said (check my original comment): unless you do it badly, transpiling to C gets you to run faster, because it lets you translate most operations to straightforward and fast C code. And that's exactly the logic they followed and what they achieved: they transpiled PHP to C, as opposed from running it with PHPs runtime interpreter, in order to make it faster, and it worked. That they skipped some parts of PHP runtime behavior/semantics, which if they didn't it would slow things down, doesn't clash with what I said. In fact it's already covered in my comment: "it let's you translate MOST" (not all) operations to fast C code.
  - mreiland 11y ago
    > transpiling to C gets you to run faster You're changing the context. > while being fast since it's compiled to C. - them > being compiled to C doesn't imply fast :) - me > Unless done badly, it does. - you You've switched to "faster" because it's a more defensible position, but that isn't the idea that was originally being responded to. That's why jerf said the following, emphasis mine: > No, it doesn't. You could easily compile Python into C (basically, "just" inline the core interpreter loop), __but it will still be slow__