3 ms·

Disclosure: I work for a microbiome biotech company. I have no connection to ubiome. I'm sure this commenter means well but this person is severely misinformed

Disclosure: I work for a microbiome biotech company. I have no connection to ubiome. I'm sure this commenter means well but this person is severely misinformed. Any person with even a minimal understanding of our gut microbiome would never argue for a relatively sterile gut. We rely on out gut bacteria to digest foods and there is a healthy, normal exchange of metabolites between the microbes and our bodies. Microbes digest foods such as fiber and starches into (for example) short-chain fatty acids that have been shown to have beneficial effects on our bodies. They also prime our immune system so that we are better prepared to combat invasion of potential pathogens. LPS is a necessary component of all gram negative bacteria. Many of our commensal bacteria are gram negatives. The problem with LPS is when it gets to places where it shouldn't be (e.g. crossing our gut epithelial barrier). Some labs utilize germ-free mice to investigate the causative role of the microbiome on the host. While these animal models can serve as great systems in which to investigate certain hypotheses, every germ-free model researcher would no doubt agree that the immune system of germ-free animals is completely different and severely compromised compared to a normal, conventional animal. They, in fact, do NOT live longer and are NOT stronger/healthier. I felt that the above comment needed to be rectified before people starting actually believing it.

a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
Let me boil down your essential claims: 1) Bacteria in the gut make stuff you need and helpfully digest things for you. 2) Endotoxin is only a problem when it crosses the gut. 3) By various magic bacteria in the gut strengthen the immune system. Well #1 just isn't really true. There aren't any identified compounds that are at all hard to get from food that you need gut bacteria to make for you. Maybe some vitamin K and that's about it, but a serving of liver or some other foods will more than cover your vitamin K dose. #2 is a silly argument because endotoxin is constantly crossing the gut barrier. LPS endotoxin is a continuous stress on the liver to detoxify. Whether it's a real problem in an otherwise healthy individual or not is a separate question, but the argument presented here is totally specious. It is quite plainly a continuous stream of toxic material the organs work to clear. As for #3, that's the big totally open question I guess. You see the claim made but nobody ever really breaks it down in detail in terms the experimental physiology proving the idea. It's usually some eye-roll-worthy trials. The fact that the sterile rats can't survive outside the lab environment is not the point. No kidding they have under-trained immune systems. The point is that absent the chronic stress of bacteria load they do in fact live longer and are in fact stronger in the literal definition of strong. This guy is being deliberately hand-wavy.
- Terr_ 11y ago
  Sterile/non-sterile is a bit of a false dichotomy. The practical choice is between species you can live with... and thing's you can't. This also applies to larger biomes.
- Klinky 11y ago
  Look you're being just as hand wavy, and your sterile gut idea is a bit of spherical cow. We will never be able to sterilize our environment to the point where we can easily maintain a sterile gut. No one fully understands the human microbiome, including you. Are there any case studies of people maintaining a sterilized gut and living healthier lives? Therapies like fecal transplant or helimintic therapy actively introduce third parties into your gut with positive outcomes. Which at least suggests that bacterial balance in the gut is important for some people.

a8da6b0c91d 11y ago

Let me boil down your essential claims: 1) Bacteria in the gut make stuff you need and helpfully digest things for you. 2) Endotoxin is only a problem when it crosses the gut. 3) By various magic bacteria in the gut strengthen the immune system. Well #1 just isn't really true. There aren't any identified compounds that are at all hard to get from food that you need gut bacteria to make for you. Maybe some vitamin K and that's about it, but a serving of liver or some other foods will more than cover your vitamin K dose. #2 is a silly argument because endotoxin is constantly crossing the gut barrier. LPS endotoxin is a continuous stress on the liver to detoxify. Whether it's a real problem in an otherwise healthy individual or not is a separate question, but the argument presented here is totally specious. It is quite plainly a continuous stream of toxic material the organs work to clear. As for #3, that's the big totally open question I guess. You see the claim made but nobody ever really breaks it down in detail in terms the experimental physiology proving the idea. It's usually some eye-roll-worthy trials. The fact that the sterile rats can't survive outside the lab environment is not the point. No kidding they have under-trained immune systems. The point is that absent the chronic stress of bacteria load they do in fact live longer and are in fact stronger in the literal definition of strong. This guy is being deliberately hand-wavy.

Terr_ 11y ago
Sterile/non-sterile is a bit of a false dichotomy. The practical choice is between species you can live with... and thing's you can't. This also applies to larger biomes.
Klinky 11y ago
Look you're being just as hand wavy, and your sterile gut idea is a bit of spherical cow. We will never be able to sterilize our environment to the point where we can easily maintain a sterile gut. No one fully understands the human microbiome, including you. Are there any case studies of people maintaining a sterilized gut and living healthier lives? Therapies like fecal transplant or helimintic therapy actively introduce third parties into your gut with positive outcomes. Which at least suggests that bacterial balance in the gut is important for some people.