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>" but it's not like Elon Musk has saved the world just yet." "I choose to rent, I choose to have no property rights over the building I live in, I choose to b

by criley2 12y ago

>" but it's not like Elon Musk has saved the world just yet." "I choose to rent, I choose to have no property rights over the building I live in, I choose to be legally incapable of installing solar panels and batteries on a structure I don't own: Elon Musk has failed me" Come on now. You made your choice to not be a part of the greater community and culture of property owners. These options, they're available to owners, not renters. Did you realize Google Fiber was the same way? As a renter, you have 0 ability to install Google Fiber without your owners permission. (https://support.google.com/fiber/answer/2847916?hl=en https://support.google.com/fiber/answer/2847916?hl=en) This is the same. If you care, you'll petition your landlord to invest in these technologies. Or you'll buy property and change your status to enable yourself materially and legally to be able to do it yourself. But you can't blame Elon because of your choice to make yourself willingly devoid of the legal authority to make these decisions for yourself. Elon can never overcome your landlords property rights. Not now, not in 100 years. That's not his failure, it's your choice in a free society. Next time, rent in a location that has these options already installed, or make it known that these are your priorities. I personally have sat down with my landlord and discussed Fiber and the costs and the benefits, and I'm confident he will make that investment on behalf his property. It's not hard to take the initiative and make a case.

psychometry 12y ago
Oh, give me a break. Asking your landlord to switch ISPs is not the same as instantly acquiring 100 grand to buy yourself a Tesla automobile. Nor is it the same as instantly having the financial and personal freedom to say "I'm going to go buy some property!" Have you ever considered that some people can't buy certain things because they don't have the means to do so? (Save me the tirade of libertarian talking points, please...) I'm not blaming Elon for anything and I don't really have any interest in owning property at the moment. I'm simply pointing out that his company isn't really changing the lives of most people.
- ericd 12y ago
  If he manages to significantly reduce greenhouse gas production by selling these to homeowners and utilities at a massive scale, then he'll definitely be changing the life of most people.
- criley2 12y ago
  "I'm not blaming Elon for anything and I don't really have any interest in owning property at the moment. I'm simply pointing out that his company isn't really changing the lives of most people. Please, sir, it's ME who needs to be given a break. * I'm not a libertarian as you have insultingly labeled me, I'm a social democrat * Just because you cannot afford a $3500 battery doesn't mean anything except you cannot afford a $3500 battery * Had you watched even 10 minutes of Elon's presentation, you'd understand that your utility could install a large scale version of these for your benefit. It doesn't have to be a personal installation, a 'smarter' grid means you can send your solar during the day to a central storage run by a utility or government, and then spend that credit when you draw from grid at night. * Considering that utilities can do this, that means socially speaking, a government could invest in these. In fact, you'll find California providing deep incentives for exactly this kind of work. Your "100k on a Tesla" remark, when in reality we're discussing $3500 batteries and similarly priced solar setups, goes a long way towards showing that you have an IRRATIONAL reaction here, not a rational once. You clearly have not investigated even the basics of this, and are using hyperbole to make an emotional statement. $100k would power several homes independently of the grid, or power a multi-family structure like an apartment building. You could ask your landlord to install a $3500 battery, that's a conversation you could have with your landlord. It's one you choose not to have, and even though you choose that, you still blame Elon. This world will change without you. Your attitude is no different that that "one guy" we all know who has a clam-shell dumbphone and is good with it. The world changed around him, although that one guy we know is still bemoaning that Steve Jobs did nothing for him. For all we know, apartment complexes will install 50kwh setups with solar panels on their facility as a way to attract people: "NO POWER BILLS! POWER INCLUDED IN RENT! NO BROWNOUTS! NO BLACKOUTS!" It'd be a powerfully interesting marketing tactic. Just because you don't own a house doesn't mean Elon's ideas can't change the world.
freyr 12y ago
>> "I choose to rent, I choose to have no property rights over the building I live in, I choose to be legally incapable of installing solar panels and batteries on a structure I don't own: Elon Musk has failed me" > Come on now. You made your choice to not be a part of the greater community and culture of property owners. More and more young people are moving to urban areas and making property ownership a low priority. But given that this is HN, there's a high chance he lives in SF/SV/NYC, where most tech workers could not afford to own property if they wanted to. Property ownership would entail relocating, which isn't always an immediate option for everyone.
dragonwriter 12y ago
> Elon can never overcome your landlords property rights. Not now, not in 100 years. With sufficient lobbying juice he could. I mean, the government has intervened in property rights in favor of renters and against property owners when it comes to antennae for certain kinds of data, there's no fundamental reason they couldn't for residential backup power systems. [0] [0] https://www.fcc.gov/guides/installing-consumer-owned-antennas-and-satellite-dishes https://www.fcc.gov/guides/installing-consumer-owned-antenna...

by criley2 12y ago

psychometry 12y ago

Oh, give me a break. Asking your landlord to switch ISPs is not the same as instantly acquiring 100 grand to buy yourself a Tesla automobile. Nor is it the same as instantly having the financial and personal freedom to say "I'm going to go buy some property!" Have you ever considered that some people can't buy certain things because they don't have the means to do so? (Save me the tirade of libertarian talking points, please...) I'm not blaming Elon for anything and I don't really have any interest in owning property at the moment. I'm simply pointing out that his company isn't really changing the lives of most people.

ericd 12y ago
If he manages to significantly reduce greenhouse gas production by selling these to homeowners and utilities at a massive scale, then he'll definitely be changing the life of most people.
criley2 12y ago
"I'm not blaming Elon for anything and I don't really have any interest in owning property at the moment. I'm simply pointing out that his company isn't really changing the lives of most people. Please, sir, it's ME who needs to be given a break. * I'm not a libertarian as you have insultingly labeled me, I'm a social democrat * Just because you cannot afford a $3500 battery doesn't mean anything except you cannot afford a $3500 battery * Had you watched even 10 minutes of Elon's presentation, you'd understand that your utility could install a large scale version of these for your benefit. It doesn't have to be a personal installation, a 'smarter' grid means you can send your solar during the day to a central storage run by a utility or government, and then spend that credit when you draw from grid at night. * Considering that utilities can do this, that means socially speaking, a government could invest in these. In fact, you'll find California providing deep incentives for exactly this kind of work. Your "100k on a Tesla" remark, when in reality we're discussing $3500 batteries and similarly priced solar setups, goes a long way towards showing that you have an IRRATIONAL reaction here, not a rational once. You clearly have not investigated even the basics of this, and are using hyperbole to make an emotional statement. $100k would power several homes independently of the grid, or power a multi-family structure like an apartment building. You could ask your landlord to install a $3500 battery, that's a conversation you could have with your landlord. It's one you choose not to have, and even though you choose that, you still blame Elon. This world will change without you. Your attitude is no different that that "one guy" we all know who has a clam-shell dumbphone and is good with it. The world changed around him, although that one guy we know is still bemoaning that Steve Jobs did nothing for him. For all we know, apartment complexes will install 50kwh setups with solar panels on their facility as a way to attract people: "NO POWER BILLS! POWER INCLUDED IN RENT! NO BROWNOUTS! NO BLACKOUTS!" It'd be a powerfully interesting marketing tactic. Just because you don't own a house doesn't mean Elon's ideas can't change the world.

freyr 12y ago

>> "I choose to rent, I choose to have no property rights over the building I live in, I choose to be legally incapable of installing solar panels and batteries on a structure I don't own: Elon Musk has failed me" > Come on now. You made your choice to not be a part of the greater community and culture of property owners. More and more young people are moving to urban areas and making property ownership a low priority. But given that this is HN, there's a high chance he lives in SF/SV/NYC, where most tech workers could not afford to own property if they wanted to. Property ownership would entail relocating, which isn't always an immediate option for everyone.

dragonwriter 12y ago

> Elon can never overcome your landlords property rights. Not now, not in 100 years. With sufficient lobbying juice he could. I mean, the government has intervened in property rights in favor of renters and against property owners when it comes to antennae for certain kinds of data, there's no fundamental reason they couldn't for residential backup power systems. [0] [0] https://www.fcc.gov/guides/installing-consumer-owned-antennas-and-satellite-dishes https://www.fcc.gov/guides/installing-consumer-owned-antenna...