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> If I see someone list HTML, DHTML, XHTML and HTML 5, alarm bells start ringing I understand where this is coming from, but I think the author should realize

> If I see someone list HTML, DHTML, XHTML and HTML 5, alarm bells start ringing I understand where this is coming from, but I think the author should realize that lots of companies have non-technical people (or robots) screening resumes and they're looking for exact matches. You're a Phonegap expert? Sorry we need someone who knows Cordova. Its better to overlist than underlist.

jharger 11y ago
In some places that have those general or robot screeners, there's often a place to put the skills the screeners see, and a separate place to attach your CV/resume that the hiring manager actually sees. Then you can over-list on the robo-skill section, and keep it focused on the actual document.
taprun 11y ago
Yes! I've seen screeners who state that they can't find any suitable PHP developers because none of the resumes also list HTML. This is probably a sign that companies could spend a bit more for screeners and wind up with staff worlds above those of their competitors.
loopbit 11y ago
As a manager I had years ago said: "Dumb down your CV so that the HR people will understand it, but not so much the hiring manager think you are stupid"
- thebouv 11y ago
  That's a fine line to walk unfortunately. I suggest iterating your CV/LinkedIn/Portfolio. Keep it up to date and tweak your skills just like you would with SEO.
  - loopbit 11y ago
    Not only that, as you grow and the type of jobs you look for changes, so does your CV and the stuff you have to put there... Actually, thinking of it like SEO is pretty accurate. Now let's see if I can make Stephen Fry tweet my CV...
copsarebastards 11y ago
Non-technical people screening resumes is a major dysfunction. If a company screens out my resume because I didn't include DHTML, they've screened themselves out--I wouldn't want to work at a place where the other members of my team are determined by someone unqualified. Remember that there are more development jobs than there are developers. As such, don't act desperate. Companies want to control the job market by setting the expectation that they are interviewing you--don't fall for it. They need you more than you need them: you should be interviewing them.
- TheAnimus 11y ago
  > I wouldn't want to work at a place where the other members of my team are determined by someone unqualified. But it's a big firm, they've got to comply with both UK employment law and the German rules too. They get 1000s of applications, so they need to filter them, it's time that's far to important to spend on a developer, I mean they are short of them too. So I'll stick it on, probably in a format that makes it obvious to a technical person, I consider this an expansion of the bullet point technology.
  - copsarebastards 11y ago
    > But it's a big firm, they've got to comply with both UK employment law and the German rules too. I don't know why this would be relevant. Excuses for why they are dysfunctional don't change the fact that they are dysfunctional. > They get 1000s of applications, so they need to filter them, it's time that's far to important to spend on a developer, I mean they are short of them too. It doesn't matter how many applications a big company receives as a whole. If you've posted a job posting for a specific job, you're lucky to receive 10s of applications, let alone 1000s. And given that a hire will affect the productivity of the team every second of every day for years, spending an hour filtering applications is absolutely a worthwhile investment of developer time. And if applications are handled at the corporate level for a large corporation, the hiring process is fundamentally broken. That doesn't mean it's okay to have unqualified people filtering applications, it means that you should be posting jobs for specific teams rather than for the whole company. I've worked at large companies where applications were filtered by a central office and it showed in the quality of applications we received. I ended up drawing from my local community instead and this was a big part of why our team outperformed others at the company. > So I'll stick it on, probably in a format that makes it obvious to a technical person, I consider this an expansion of the bullet point technology. You're only doing yourself a disservice by catering to organizations with crappy hiring practices. Good luck!
SeptimusPrime 11y ago
If possible, you want the recruiter to receive a succinct CV which gets your message across clearly and doesn't dilute it down with too much chaff. If you need to put a CV with every keyword listed up on job sites, so be it, but if you get a chance to put forward a CV tailored to a specific vacancy that the company will actually see, you should always do this.
caseysoftware 11y ago
I would suggest that if you're going in through the non-technical person, you're taking the wrong approach. For many companies, you can determine who you might be working with or working for from the job description, title, etc. Then with a little bit of googling and/or LinkedIn exploration, find some of the relevant people. Even if you can only get to a potential coworker, it's a start. Drop them a note saying "I'm interested in position X but I want to know more about the role and/or find the proper person to talk to. Do you have any suggestions?" or if you're remotely connected to them at all, cut to the chase with "I don't want to get caught in the HR blackhole. Who should I talk to?" Most of the tech people out there will understand and often agree with that reasoning and either give you a name, offer to pass along your resume yourself, or - worse case - ignore you. But before they'll pass you along, they'll probably google you to make sure you're not a recruiter and/or scammer.

jharger 11y ago

In some places that have those general or robot screeners, there's often a place to put the skills the screeners see, and a separate place to attach your CV/resume that the hiring manager actually sees. Then you can over-list on the robo-skill section, and keep it focused on the actual document.

taprun 11y ago

Yes! I've seen screeners who state that they can't find any suitable PHP developers because none of the resumes also list HTML. This is probably a sign that companies could spend a bit more for screeners and wind up with staff worlds above those of their competitors.

loopbit 11y ago

As a manager I had years ago said: "Dumb down your CV so that the HR people will understand it, but not so much the hiring manager think you are stupid"

thebouv 11y ago
That's a fine line to walk unfortunately. I suggest iterating your CV/LinkedIn/Portfolio. Keep it up to date and tweak your skills just like you would with SEO.
- loopbit 11y ago
  Not only that, as you grow and the type of jobs you look for changes, so does your CV and the stuff you have to put there... Actually, thinking of it like SEO is pretty accurate. Now let's see if I can make Stephen Fry tweet my CV...

copsarebastards 11y ago

Non-technical people screening resumes is a major dysfunction. If a company screens out my resume because I didn't include DHTML, they've screened themselves out--I wouldn't want to work at a place where the other members of my team are determined by someone unqualified. Remember that there are more development jobs than there are developers. As such, don't act desperate. Companies want to control the job market by setting the expectation that they are interviewing you--don't fall for it. They need you more than you need them: you should be interviewing them.

TheAnimus 11y ago
> I wouldn't want to work at a place where the other members of my team are determined by someone unqualified. But it's a big firm, they've got to comply with both UK employment law and the German rules too. They get 1000s of applications, so they need to filter them, it's time that's far to important to spend on a developer, I mean they are short of them too. So I'll stick it on, probably in a format that makes it obvious to a technical person, I consider this an expansion of the bullet point technology.
- copsarebastards 11y ago
  > But it's a big firm, they've got to comply with both UK employment law and the German rules too. I don't know why this would be relevant. Excuses for why they are dysfunctional don't change the fact that they are dysfunctional. > They get 1000s of applications, so they need to filter them, it's time that's far to important to spend on a developer, I mean they are short of them too. It doesn't matter how many applications a big company receives as a whole. If you've posted a job posting for a specific job, you're lucky to receive 10s of applications, let alone 1000s. And given that a hire will affect the productivity of the team every second of every day for years, spending an hour filtering applications is absolutely a worthwhile investment of developer time. And if applications are handled at the corporate level for a large corporation, the hiring process is fundamentally broken. That doesn't mean it's okay to have unqualified people filtering applications, it means that you should be posting jobs for specific teams rather than for the whole company. I've worked at large companies where applications were filtered by a central office and it showed in the quality of applications we received. I ended up drawing from my local community instead and this was a big part of why our team outperformed others at the company. > So I'll stick it on, probably in a format that makes it obvious to a technical person, I consider this an expansion of the bullet point technology. You're only doing yourself a disservice by catering to organizations with crappy hiring practices. Good luck!

SeptimusPrime 11y ago

If possible, you want the recruiter to receive a succinct CV which gets your message across clearly and doesn't dilute it down with too much chaff. If you need to put a CV with every keyword listed up on job sites, so be it, but if you get a chance to put forward a CV tailored to a specific vacancy that the company will actually see, you should always do this.

caseysoftware 11y ago

I would suggest that if you're going in through the non-technical person, you're taking the wrong approach. For many companies, you can determine who you might be working with or working for from the job description, title, etc. Then with a little bit of googling and/or LinkedIn exploration, find some of the relevant people. Even if you can only get to a potential coworker, it's a start. Drop them a note saying "I'm interested in position X but I want to know more about the role and/or find the proper person to talk to. Do you have any suggestions?" or if you're remotely connected to them at all, cut to the chase with "I don't want to get caught in the HR blackhole. Who should I talk to?" Most of the tech people out there will understand and often agree with that reasoning and either give you a name, offer to pass along your resume yourself, or - worse case - ignore you. But before they'll pass you along, they'll probably google you to make sure you're not a recruiter and/or scammer.