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> as this is written by a member of said family don't we need a counterpoint? I overlooked it when I first read the article, but after the family member's stor

by mcherm 12y ago

> as this is written by a member of said family don't we need a counterpoint? I overlooked it when I first read the article, but after the family member's story is a response by the vice president for student affairs. Read it to see their perspective. > with all the people saying that W&M are just 'covering their asses', do you believe that they should be held liable for the intentional actions of their adult students? I don't understand what you are saying here. I suspect that W&M's actions (like immediately banning the student from campus, and resisting having him return even after receiving a doctor's bill of good mental health) were motivated by "covering their asses". Of course I do not believe that W&M should be held liable for the actions of their students... nor have I seen anyone suggesting that. Did I misunderstand what you were trying to say?

cmdrfred 12y ago
I don't think you can be considered to be 'covering your ass' on a situation that you are not liable for. Please explain that to me.
- Jtsummers 12y ago
  Politics and image. Even if they're not liable in any civil or criminal sense for his behavior or treatment, a student suicide on campus would be bad for business. It brings unwanted publicity to the school, and a lot of nosy reporting (though it may not last long). But even if they're not liable, they're still, to some extent, responsible for the students at their university. 18-22 year olds are adults, but many are still developing emotionally and have just moved from living at home and the K-12 educational model into an environment where they're expected to be independent and fully self-responsible, and the academic work is likely far harder and more stressful than anything they've ever experienced before. It's a transition period and the university is, rightly or wrongly, viewed as a pseudo-guardian during this time. If they don't provide the image of performing this role, then they'll be viewed poorly.
  - cmdrfred 12y ago
    Being an adult is a boolean not a integer, either you are responsible for yourself or you aren't. If you aren't other people get to make decisions for you (because you aren't intelligent enough/emotionally mature/whatever), if you are you get to decide for yourself but you alone face the consequences. It's time for this generation, my generation to get off the fence (AKA their parents couch) and decide, are you an adult or not? If no, put down the alcohol, and e-cigarette until you are.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      > Being an adult is a boolean not a integer, either you are responsible for yourself or you aren't. Edit{snip} "Capacity" is variable. Someone may have capacity to feed themselves but not to make financial decisions. They might have capacity to give assent, but not consent, for surgery, but have capacity to give consent for other medical treatment. When you remove capacity you should restrict that to the minimum actions you need to take to protect that person from harm. Of course, that's all England which operates to European human rights laws which operates to international human rights treaties. Things might be different in the US.
    - totony 12y ago
      I agree with you on this, but once they admit to not being fully emotionally mature, it seems immoral to make the person think you are going to help him to simply reject and ignore him as soon as he seeks help.

by mcherm 12y ago

cmdrfred 12y ago

I don't think you can be considered to be 'covering your ass' on a situation that you are not liable for. Please explain that to me.

Jtsummers 12y ago
Politics and image. Even if they're not liable in any civil or criminal sense for his behavior or treatment, a student suicide on campus would be bad for business. It brings unwanted publicity to the school, and a lot of nosy reporting (though it may not last long). But even if they're not liable, they're still, to some extent, responsible for the students at their university. 18-22 year olds are adults, but many are still developing emotionally and have just moved from living at home and the K-12 educational model into an environment where they're expected to be independent and fully self-responsible, and the academic work is likely far harder and more stressful than anything they've ever experienced before. It's a transition period and the university is, rightly or wrongly, viewed as a pseudo-guardian during this time. If they don't provide the image of performing this role, then they'll be viewed poorly.
- cmdrfred 12y ago
  Being an adult is a boolean not a integer, either you are responsible for yourself or you aren't. If you aren't other people get to make decisions for you (because you aren't intelligent enough/emotionally mature/whatever), if you are you get to decide for yourself but you alone face the consequences. It's time for this generation, my generation to get off the fence (AKA their parents couch) and decide, are you an adult or not? If no, put down the alcohol, and e-cigarette until you are.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    > Being an adult is a boolean not a integer, either you are responsible for yourself or you aren't. Edit{snip} "Capacity" is variable. Someone may have capacity to feed themselves but not to make financial decisions. They might have capacity to give assent, but not consent, for surgery, but have capacity to give consent for other medical treatment. When you remove capacity you should restrict that to the minimum actions you need to take to protect that person from harm. Of course, that's all England which operates to European human rights laws which operates to international human rights treaties. Things might be different in the US.
  - totony 12y ago
    I agree with you on this, but once they admit to not being fully emotionally mature, it seems immoral to make the person think you are going to help him to simply reject and ignore him as soon as he seeks help.