8 ms·

Drug usage goes hand in hand with theft. Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit. It's hardly a victimless crime.

tmp-20150107 11y ago
> Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit. Not at all. Of course, you could just get a job that pays enough to support your habit? Software Engineering works for me, for example, and has allowed me to maintain a twenty year heroin habit, almost.
- girvo 11y ago
  I did the same for six years, though I'm clean now. The people I used to run with were all well paid, too, though that's more a function of how expensive heroin is in Australia.
girvo 11y ago
What do you base that on? Because I think you'd be very surprised to see the number of people who take drugs, and the fact that most of them do not resort to theft for their habit.
Nursie 11y ago
I started writing a sensible reply to this and couldn't It's outrageous. 'Drug use goes hand in hand with theft' Do you know how ignorant that sounds? Caffeine and alcohol are drugs, do they go hand in hand with theft? Is everyone legally smoking weed in Colorado a thief too? 'Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit.' Not all drugs are addictive. Most are less addictive than alcohol, nearly all are less addictive than tobacco. The vast majority of drug users are not addicts. In any sensible country those people who do get addicted would receive help and maintenance doses of their drug and wouldn't need to turn to crime. See Switzerland and their heroin programs. 'It's hardly a victimless crime.' It's exactly a victimless crime. If someone steals stuff to support a habit THAT is the crime with the victim. Not drug use. FFS.
- aquadrop 11y ago
  Reality steps in and it's bad. In Russia drug addicts were (and still are, to lesser extent) responsible for very large if not largest portion of crime, especially burglary and theft. It is a major problem, it is there and you can't go around it. And usage isn't punishable here, only distribution. So, don't dismiss parent comment so easily. 'Caffeine and alcohol are drugs' - yes, alcohol comes hand in hand with theft and other crimes. 'It's exactly a victimless crime' - it's victimless short term, but if it's hard drugs addict, there will be victims sooner or later. They will do nasty things just to get next dose. And I support claim that war on drugs is wrong, and you can't win it (for economical reasons). But usage should be controllable.
  - Zak 11y ago
    In Russia drug addicts were (and still are, to lesser extent) responsible for very large if not largest portion of crime, especially burglary and theft. <snip> And usage isn't punishable here, only distribution. So, don't dismiss parent comment so easily. This would likely not be the case if cocaine cost about the same, or even ten times as much as sugar. The high price of drugs is a direct result of laws against their production and distribution. I expect addicts stealing to support their habits would be much less of an issue with legal drugs, even if there were moderately high taxes on them to offset the costs of treating addicts.
    - aquadrop 11y ago
      I don't know, making hard drugs easily available in the country with large number of people living in poverty could end up not too good... I think we should dig history more on that, China and opium comes to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China I agree that war on drugs can't be won because of economical reasons, though.
      - Nursie 11y ago
        Perhaps not making (very) addictive drugs easily and cheaply available to the general population, but making them easily available to registered addicts, who can get some counselling but also be provided a cheap/free fix so they don't need to steal to get more. The cost to society would be far less.
forgotpasswd3x 11y ago
> Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit. You most certainly don't.
ValleyOfTheMtns 11y ago
Uh... no. Taking drugs is a victimless crime. Stealing isn't. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other.
emiliobumachar 11y ago
>Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit. How much does generic-brand sugar cost? A dollar per kilo? Two? Cocaine should cost about that, definitely less than ten times that, if it was manufactured at scale by corporations in a competitive market, and one didn't need to compensate everyone in the distribution network for the risk of being arrested or killed. Your stereotypical addict on the streets should be able to get as much as they "need" from panhandling for an hour a week. A tragedy, but a contained one. Instead, they need twenty bucks for the next dose, precisely because of the war on drugs. Think about that.
tomjen3 11y ago
In a free market cocain and heroin should cost about the same as OTC generic drugs. That means your 1000 usd/day heroin habit is now a lot less than a coffee run to starbucks.
- tmp-20150107 11y ago
  Looking at the official NHS pricelist for May 2015, 100 10mg Diamorphine (Heroin) tablets cost GBP 24.09 which is a lot cheaper than street prices... I'm guessing a GBP 80 (1/16 oz) per day habit could drop to around GBP 10-15 (not really sure about purity, but assuming adulterated to 10% would mean 0.1g street Heroin is equivalent to one of these pills, so that would be the equivalent of 10g or over 1/4 oz which would be GBP 160 probably)
  - tomjen3 11y ago
    Account for mass production and that should drop quite a lot.
  - Nursie 11y ago
    There is widely considered to be a shortage of opiates for medical services around the world, and this is in part due to the very, very strict controls on growth and distribution of the product. This is in part why the cost is as high as you say there. We seem to be getting a lot of stuff wrong in this area....

tmp-20150107 11y ago

> Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit. Not at all. Of course, you could just get a job that pays enough to support your habit? Software Engineering works for me, for example, and has allowed me to maintain a twenty year heroin habit, almost.

girvo 11y ago
I did the same for six years, though I'm clean now. The people I used to run with were all well paid, too, though that's more a function of how expensive heroin is in Australia.

girvo 11y ago

What do you base that on? Because I think you'd be very surprised to see the number of people who take drugs, and the fact that most of them do not resort to theft for their habit.

Nursie 11y ago

I started writing a sensible reply to this and couldn't It's outrageous. 'Drug use goes hand in hand with theft' Do you know how ignorant that sounds? Caffeine and alcohol are drugs, do they go hand in hand with theft? Is everyone legally smoking weed in Colorado a thief too? 'Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit.' Not all drugs are addictive. Most are less addictive than alcohol, nearly all are less addictive than tobacco. The vast majority of drug users are not addicts. In any sensible country those people who do get addicted would receive help and maintenance doses of their drug and wouldn't need to turn to crime. See Switzerland and their heroin programs. 'It's hardly a victimless crime.' It's exactly a victimless crime. If someone steals stuff to support a habit THAT is the crime with the victim. Not drug use. FFS.

aquadrop 11y ago
Reality steps in and it's bad. In Russia drug addicts were (and still are, to lesser extent) responsible for very large if not largest portion of crime, especially burglary and theft. It is a major problem, it is there and you can't go around it. And usage isn't punishable here, only distribution. So, don't dismiss parent comment so easily. 'Caffeine and alcohol are drugs' - yes, alcohol comes hand in hand with theft and other crimes. 'It's exactly a victimless crime' - it's victimless short term, but if it's hard drugs addict, there will be victims sooner or later. They will do nasty things just to get next dose. And I support claim that war on drugs is wrong, and you can't win it (for economical reasons). But usage should be controllable.
- Zak 11y ago
  In Russia drug addicts were (and still are, to lesser extent) responsible for very large if not largest portion of crime, especially burglary and theft. <snip> And usage isn't punishable here, only distribution. So, don't dismiss parent comment so easily. This would likely not be the case if cocaine cost about the same, or even ten times as much as sugar. The high price of drugs is a direct result of laws against their production and distribution. I expect addicts stealing to support their habits would be much less of an issue with legal drugs, even if there were moderately high taxes on them to offset the costs of treating addicts.
  - aquadrop 11y ago
    I don't know, making hard drugs easily available in the country with large number of people living in poverty could end up not too good... I think we should dig history more on that, China and opium comes to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China I agree that war on drugs can't be won because of economical reasons, though.
    - Nursie 11y ago
      Perhaps not making (very) addictive drugs easily and cheaply available to the general population, but making them easily available to registered addicts, who can get some counselling but also be provided a cheap/free fix so they don't need to steal to get more. The cost to society would be far less.

forgotpasswd3x 11y ago

> Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit. You most certainly don't.

ValleyOfTheMtns 11y ago

Uh... no. Taking drugs is a victimless crime. Stealing isn't. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other.

emiliobumachar 11y ago

>Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit. How much does generic-brand sugar cost? A dollar per kilo? Two? Cocaine should cost about that, definitely less than ten times that, if it was manufactured at scale by corporations in a competitive market, and one didn't need to compensate everyone in the distribution network for the risk of being arrested or killed. Your stereotypical addict on the streets should be able to get as much as they "need" from panhandling for an hour a week. A tragedy, but a contained one. Instead, they need twenty bucks for the next dose, precisely because of the war on drugs. Think about that.

tomjen3 11y ago

In a free market cocain and heroin should cost about the same as OTC generic drugs. That means your 1000 usd/day heroin habit is now a lot less than a coffee run to starbucks.

tmp-20150107 11y ago
Looking at the official NHS pricelist for May 2015, 100 10mg Diamorphine (Heroin) tablets cost GBP 24.09 which is a lot cheaper than street prices... I'm guessing a GBP 80 (1/16 oz) per day habit could drop to around GBP 10-15 (not really sure about purity, but assuming adulterated to 10% would mean 0.1g street Heroin is equivalent to one of these pills, so that would be the equivalent of 10g or over 1/4 oz which would be GBP 160 probably)
- tomjen3 11y ago
  Account for mass production and that should drop quite a lot.
- Nursie 11y ago
  There is widely considered to be a shortage of opiates for medical services around the world, and this is in part due to the very, very strict controls on growth and distribution of the product. This is in part why the cost is as high as you say there. We seem to be getting a lot of stuff wrong in this area....