6 ms·

Doesn't include inverter or installer markup and can only provide 2kW output. It will get expensive by the time you actually have all the bits you need inside

by kondro 11y ago

Doesn't include inverter or installer markup and can only provide 2kW output. It will get expensive by the time you actually have all the bits you need inside your house. How is this better than deep-cycle batteries (with 20+ year lives) again? Why does it need to be slimline?

uberdog 11y ago
> Why does it need to be slimline? "so you don't need a battery room" - Elon Musk
- kondro 11y ago
  10kWh of deep-cycle batteries aren't that large. It's not like people in apartments are going to be using this product.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    But they could now, and most deep cycle lead acid batteries are flooded, not sealed, which means they have to be ventilated to prevent hydrogen explosions hazards. Not so with Tesla's offering.
    - kondro 11y ago
      Fine. 4.8kW Li-Ion battery for USD$3,278 1.9kW for USD$1,678. My point is that Tesla isn't really doing anything really unique here. Sure, they're giving it more press than anyone really has before, but the products aren't especially cheap, innovative or special. http://ironedison.com/12-volt-lithium-battery-for-solar http://ironedison.com/12-volt-lithium-battery-for-solar
      - laggyluke 11y ago
        Wow, I have a deja vu - it's like reading comments about Apple announcing a new product :)
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > Sure, they're giving it more press than anyone really has before Ahh! But that's the most important part! Elon's portfolio companies are a pieces of an incredible future machine, all working together. Solar City is able to draw on Tesla's batteries, Tesla was able to draw on SpaceX for some of its engineering capabilities. Tesla made electric cars sexy. Now, its making energy storage sexy. Clearly, marketing is important, and will be necessary for convincing the world a clean energy future is the right direction.
      - rodgerd 11y ago
        Less storage than a Nomad.
        raverbashing 11y ago
        Lame
        MrRadar 11y ago
        No wireless! (Nikola would be so disappointed...)
      - j1z0 11y ago
        What about the power wall for utilities. I haven't heard of any other similar offerings. That seems even more important than the home based ones. Plus open sourcing designs to the gigafactory. Hey Branson want to step up and build one on your side of the pond?
      - pjc50 11y ago
        This is pretty much the "why the iPod isn't interesting" argument. It's been done before, and the new one is more expensive. What this product has is much better luxury marketing, and as part of that much better user experience.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Tesla is selling over double the capacity of your quoted 4.8kWh system for about the same price, and you say it's not especially cheap?
roel_v 11y ago
"and can only provide 2kW output." only 2kW? 2kW is enough to power any residential, single-family house for 95-98% of the time; you only need (a little bit) more than that at very short (few minutes) peak intervals - when heating up an oven, or some cycles of doing laundry. A second unit would provide that headroom, and otherwise (when the extra $5k for a second unit is prohibitive) you could still draw from the grid for peak loads and just not run an oven and washing machine at the same time during grid blackouts. It does require a 21st century house - led lighting (but it's 2015 - who still uses incandescent except for those places where you don't turn on the lights more than 4 times a year anyway?), energy-conscious appliances, moderate need for A/C (sane insulation and ventilation, localized and intelligently controlled A/C needs - i.e. no 'bring all room in my 3000 square feet sheet rock and tin roof house down to 75 degrees when it's 110 degrees outside'). But whoever doesn't have that, has options to start reducing their bills that are much better than buying energy packs.
- mrfusion 11y ago
  It says 3KW peak output which would handle things starting up.
- jacobolus 11y ago
  I use incandescent lights. They produce a much more pleasant spectrum than “white” CFLs or LEDs.
  - roel_v 11y ago
    LED's are available in various color temperatures, including 2700K (commonly referred to as 'warm white' which is basically the temperature of incandescent). It's true that the dollar-bin Chinese LED's have all sorts of bad characteristics that used to be associated with all things LED - pale color, bad spread, bad (or no) dimming capabilities, etc. It's 2015 though - take a 20$ Philips Master LED for example (I decided upon those for myself so I looked into them more heavily; I have about 20 in use now, with another few boxes in my basement awaiting installation). The GU10 socket halogen-replacement version is available in 3 temperatures and 3 spread bundles, has a 20k burn hour rating (vs 1-2k for incandescent!) and can be dimmed very well using a 50$ leading edge electronic dimmer. I'm no tree hugger - even purely economical (apart from the convenience of not having to replace lamps every year), in 2015 it doesn't make any economic sense to buy incandescent (in those places where it's possible to buy them at all...) for all purposes where the light is used on a 'regular' basis (more than an hour a day or so). Of course it does require an initial 'investment'. But one that would be spread over 1 or 2 years - the normal replacement cycle of incandescent bulbs. Throwing out working incandescent bulbs to replace them with LED is not rational either, of course.

by kondro 11y ago

uberdog 11y ago

> Why does it need to be slimline? "so you don't need a battery room" - Elon Musk

kondro 11y ago
10kWh of deep-cycle batteries aren't that large. It's not like people in apartments are going to be using this product.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  But they could now, and most deep cycle lead acid batteries are flooded, not sealed, which means they have to be ventilated to prevent hydrogen explosions hazards. Not so with Tesla's offering.
  - kondro 11y ago
    Fine. 4.8kW Li-Ion battery for USD$3,278 1.9kW for USD$1,678. My point is that Tesla isn't really doing anything really unique here. Sure, they're giving it more press than anyone really has before, but the products aren't especially cheap, innovative or special. http://ironedison.com/12-volt-lithium-battery-for-solar http://ironedison.com/12-volt-lithium-battery-for-solar
    - laggyluke 11y ago
      Wow, I have a deja vu - it's like reading comments about Apple announcing a new product :)
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > Sure, they're giving it more press than anyone really has before Ahh! But that's the most important part! Elon's portfolio companies are a pieces of an incredible future machine, all working together. Solar City is able to draw on Tesla's batteries, Tesla was able to draw on SpaceX for some of its engineering capabilities. Tesla made electric cars sexy. Now, its making energy storage sexy. Clearly, marketing is important, and will be necessary for convincing the world a clean energy future is the right direction.
    - rodgerd 11y ago
      Less storage than a Nomad.
      - raverbashing 11y ago
        Lame
      - MrRadar 11y ago
        No wireless! (Nikola would be so disappointed...)
    - j1z0 11y ago
      What about the power wall for utilities. I haven't heard of any other similar offerings. That seems even more important than the home based ones. Plus open sourcing designs to the gigafactory. Hey Branson want to step up and build one on your side of the pond?
    - pjc50 11y ago
      This is pretty much the "why the iPod isn't interesting" argument. It's been done before, and the new one is more expensive. What this product has is much better luxury marketing, and as part of that much better user experience.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Tesla is selling over double the capacity of your quoted 4.8kWh system for about the same price, and you say it's not especially cheap?

roel_v 11y ago

"and can only provide 2kW output." only 2kW? 2kW is enough to power any residential, single-family house for 95-98% of the time; you only need (a little bit) more than that at very short (few minutes) peak intervals - when heating up an oven, or some cycles of doing laundry. A second unit would provide that headroom, and otherwise (when the extra $5k for a second unit is prohibitive) you could still draw from the grid for peak loads and just not run an oven and washing machine at the same time during grid blackouts. It does require a 21st century house - led lighting (but it's 2015 - who still uses incandescent except for those places where you don't turn on the lights more than 4 times a year anyway?), energy-conscious appliances, moderate need for A/C (sane insulation and ventilation, localized and intelligently controlled A/C needs - i.e. no 'bring all room in my 3000 square feet sheet rock and tin roof house down to 75 degrees when it's 110 degrees outside'). But whoever doesn't have that, has options to start reducing their bills that are much better than buying energy packs.

mrfusion 11y ago
It says 3KW peak output which would handle things starting up.
jacobolus 11y ago
I use incandescent lights. They produce a much more pleasant spectrum than “white” CFLs or LEDs.
- roel_v 11y ago
  LED's are available in various color temperatures, including 2700K (commonly referred to as 'warm white' which is basically the temperature of incandescent). It's true that the dollar-bin Chinese LED's have all sorts of bad characteristics that used to be associated with all things LED - pale color, bad spread, bad (or no) dimming capabilities, etc. It's 2015 though - take a 20$ Philips Master LED for example (I decided upon those for myself so I looked into them more heavily; I have about 20 in use now, with another few boxes in my basement awaiting installation). The GU10 socket halogen-replacement version is available in 3 temperatures and 3 spread bundles, has a 20k burn hour rating (vs 1-2k for incandescent!) and can be dimmed very well using a 50$ leading edge electronic dimmer. I'm no tree hugger - even purely economical (apart from the convenience of not having to replace lamps every year), in 2015 it doesn't make any economic sense to buy incandescent (in those places where it's possible to buy them at all...) for all purposes where the light is used on a 'regular' basis (more than an hour a day or so). Of course it does require an initial 'investment'. But one that would be spread over 1 or 2 years - the normal replacement cycle of incandescent bulbs. Throwing out working incandescent bulbs to replace them with LED is not rational either, of course.