3 ms·

It'll be interesting to see how this is pitched and what it's price point is... I'm still not convinced that energy arbitrage is profitable enough for individua

It'll be interesting to see how this is pitched and what it's price point is... I'm still not convinced that energy arbitrage is profitable enough for individual homes given the current cost of the storage.

obstinate 11y ago
I'm curious if they'll be indemnifying homeowners for fires originating in the battery pack. Anyway, if it can clearly save me money and is not incredibly expensive up-front, I'll likely get one. Even if you actively conserve, electricity is decently expensive over the long run.
- NeutronBoy 11y ago
  > I'm curious if they'll be indemnifying homeowners for fires originating in the battery pack. Why would they? I would have thought it's no different from any other household appliance.
- TheSpiceIsLife 11y ago
  Presumably they're using a stable form of lithium ion battery, does anyone know? Maybe something similar to A123 Systems' lithium iron phosphate?
  - greglindahl 11y ago
    If only Tesla had experience with batteries... wait! They ship cars! Electric cars! With a lot more battery history than A123! Woah.
hyperbovine 11y ago
In the same way that very few people buy a $100,000+ Model S to save money on gas, early adopters of this product will be people who are a) well off and b) find the idea of converting their home to 100% renewable electricity appealing.
- astrocat 11y ago
  I certainly don't doubt there will some, but a battery stuck in the wall of your house isn't nearly as sexy and show-off-able as a sporty car.
  - hyperbovine 11y ago
    I disagree. To some people it is even more sexy.
ridgeguy 11y ago
It might be. The significant return to individuals should come when they can participate in "ancillary services". These are classes of power contribution or absorption that meet short-term, urgent grid management needs. For one example among many: if grid frequency drops below its nominal 60Hz, that indicates electricity demand exceeds supply, and the kilotons of spinning iron and copper in the generators that supply the grid are slowing down as they contribute rotational kinetic energy to meet demand. Grid management options for this type of demand/supply mismatch include calling for increased output from generators that aren't already at their max, engaging idle-output (but phase synchronized) spinning reserve generators, and buying power from contiguous grids. Power sold under these circumstances can be priced at large multiples of base rates (like net metering rates) because of its high value in stabilizing the grid. Smart grid infrastructure (communications, controllers, bidirectional inverters, etc) will allow grid managers (or localized intelligent algorithms) to draw on residential energy storage for ancillary services. These services should bring residential participants much higher returns than existing simple and not very lucrative net metering schedules. However, I imagine there will be significant legal combat before resident owners of distributed storage are allowed to recover market rates for their ancillary service contributions.
c1sc0 11y ago
We have a fairly large 100% electric home built in 1980 (after the oil crisis government promised "all's going to be nuclear & cheap real soon now") ... don't underestimate the electricity & heatings costs on large properties
bitcrusher 11y ago
It really depends on where you live. In places like Arizona, this unit could pay for itself in a matter of a few years. Even if it is only used as a load shifter, it could generate great savings during the summer/hot months.

obstinate 11y ago

I'm curious if they'll be indemnifying homeowners for fires originating in the battery pack. Anyway, if it can clearly save me money and is not incredibly expensive up-front, I'll likely get one. Even if you actively conserve, electricity is decently expensive over the long run.

NeutronBoy 11y ago
> I'm curious if they'll be indemnifying homeowners for fires originating in the battery pack. Why would they? I would have thought it's no different from any other household appliance.
TheSpiceIsLife 11y ago
Presumably they're using a stable form of lithium ion battery, does anyone know? Maybe something similar to A123 Systems' lithium iron phosphate?
- greglindahl 11y ago
  If only Tesla had experience with batteries... wait! They ship cars! Electric cars! With a lot more battery history than A123! Woah.

hyperbovine 11y ago

In the same way that very few people buy a $100,000+ Model S to save money on gas, early adopters of this product will be people who are a) well off and b) find the idea of converting their home to 100% renewable electricity appealing.

astrocat 11y ago
I certainly don't doubt there will some, but a battery stuck in the wall of your house isn't nearly as sexy and show-off-able as a sporty car.
- hyperbovine 11y ago
  I disagree. To some people it is even more sexy.

ridgeguy 11y ago

It might be. The significant return to individuals should come when they can participate in "ancillary services". These are classes of power contribution or absorption that meet short-term, urgent grid management needs. For one example among many: if grid frequency drops below its nominal 60Hz, that indicates electricity demand exceeds supply, and the kilotons of spinning iron and copper in the generators that supply the grid are slowing down as they contribute rotational kinetic energy to meet demand. Grid management options for this type of demand/supply mismatch include calling for increased output from generators that aren't already at their max, engaging idle-output (but phase synchronized) spinning reserve generators, and buying power from contiguous grids. Power sold under these circumstances can be priced at large multiples of base rates (like net metering rates) because of its high value in stabilizing the grid. Smart grid infrastructure (communications, controllers, bidirectional inverters, etc) will allow grid managers (or localized intelligent algorithms) to draw on residential energy storage for ancillary services. These services should bring residential participants much higher returns than existing simple and not very lucrative net metering schedules. However, I imagine there will be significant legal combat before resident owners of distributed storage are allowed to recover market rates for their ancillary service contributions.

c1sc0 11y ago

We have a fairly large 100% electric home built in 1980 (after the oil crisis government promised "all's going to be nuclear & cheap real soon now") ... don't underestimate the electricity & heatings costs on large properties

bitcrusher 11y ago

It really depends on where you live. In places like Arizona, this unit could pay for itself in a matter of a few years. Even if it is only used as a load shifter, it could generate great savings during the summer/hot months.