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I don't want you to see this as a personal attack, but isn't it your father's fault not having taught you to speak this "dialect" (which, I guess, is a language

by iagooar 12y ago

I don't want you to see this as a personal attack, but isn't it your father's fault not having taught you to speak this "dialect" (which, I guess, is a language called despectively a dialect)?

d4mi3n 12y ago
Blaming people contributes to this discussion how?
- XaspR8d 12y ago
  Well I'm not sure of iagooar's intent, but there is an important distinction here that only community members have the actually power to save a language. It isn't their 'fault' by any means because they have to balance the conformative expectations of the larger (usually oppressive) society with the desire to keep their culture alive, and none of us can really say which is the 'right' choice. The important battleground here is misinformation. A lot of people think teaching their children a native language will impede them from learning the matrix language, but tons of evidence shows that this is not the case. Bilinguals might think slightly differently than monolinguals, but on most tests they actually perform above average. If we could make sure they know that, and provide resources to record media and train educators directly in the communities, a lot more languages would survive.
- iagooar 12y ago
  I don't want to blame anyone, that wasn't my intent. But how do I express my opinion, that passing a language from parents to children is the best way of preserving an endagered language? I ask myself how is your "grumpy" post contributing to this discussion?
realusername 12y ago
It's indeed part of the problem. It's clearly a chicken and egg problem, because it was already engendered at the time, he did not think it would be useful (and it was already a bit out of fashion). But yes I agree. I call it a dialect myself because it relies at least 20% on french (I'm french myself). But after all, I'm not a linguist, they might disagree with the appellation. Maybe it would be a good think to document it I guess, for future purpose.
- noblethrasher 12y ago
  > I call it a dialect myself because it relies at least 20% on french "A language is a dialect with an army and navy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_language_is_a_dialect_with_an_army_and_navy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_language_is_a_dialect_with_an...
jeorgun 12y ago
My father tried quite hard to teach me and my brother Turkish when we were young. It's lucky Turkish isn't in any sense an endangered language, because today between us we know exactly zero words of Turkish. It's not exactly a foolproof process.

by iagooar 12y ago

I don't want you to see this as a personal attack, but isn't it your father's fault not having taught you to speak this "dialect" (which, I guess, is a language called despectively a dialect)?

d4mi3n 12y ago

Blaming people contributes to this discussion how?

XaspR8d 12y ago
Well I'm not sure of iagooar's intent, but there is an important distinction here that only community members have the actually power to save a language. It isn't their 'fault' by any means because they have to balance the conformative expectations of the larger (usually oppressive) society with the desire to keep their culture alive, and none of us can really say which is the 'right' choice. The important battleground here is misinformation. A lot of people think teaching their children a native language will impede them from learning the matrix language, but tons of evidence shows that this is not the case. Bilinguals might think slightly differently than monolinguals, but on most tests they actually perform above average. If we could make sure they know that, and provide resources to record media and train educators directly in the communities, a lot more languages would survive.
iagooar 12y ago
I don't want to blame anyone, that wasn't my intent. But how do I express my opinion, that passing a language from parents to children is the best way of preserving an endagered language? I ask myself how is your "grumpy" post contributing to this discussion?

realusername 12y ago

It's indeed part of the problem. It's clearly a chicken and egg problem, because it was already engendered at the time, he did not think it would be useful (and it was already a bit out of fashion). But yes I agree. I call it a dialect myself because it relies at least 20% on french (I'm french myself). But after all, I'm not a linguist, they might disagree with the appellation. Maybe it would be a good think to document it I guess, for future purpose.

noblethrasher 12y ago
> I call it a dialect myself because it relies at least 20% on french "A language is a dialect with an army and navy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_language_is_a_dialect_with_an_army_and_navy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_language_is_a_dialect_with_an...

jeorgun 12y ago

My father tried quite hard to teach me and my brother Turkish when we were young. It's lucky Turkish isn't in any sense an endangered language, because today between us we know exactly zero words of Turkish. It's not exactly a foolproof process.