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I think you are misrepresenting the position opposed to you. My position is like this: pro-encryption people distrust government, which is fundametally mistaken

by sanxiyn 12y ago

I think you are misrepresenting the position opposed to you. My position is like this: pro-encryption people distrust government, which is fundametally mistaken position. Government has rightful authority justified by democratic process. Policy change should be done by democratic process, not by decree from elites using technology such as encryption. Such policy-change-by-technology bypasses democratic process and is dangerous. Trust is human construct, so "trust math, not government" is position that is not only wrong, but also is confused.

Nursie 12y ago
>> Government has rightful authority justified by democratic process. Policy change should be done by democratic process, not by decree from elites using technology such as encryption. This is demonstrably false in light of releases like Snowden's stuff. There is little to no democratic oversight, and at every turn the people are denied the knowledge of what their government is doing and are therefore denied the ability to voice any opposition. How can you democratically oppose something if nobody will even tell you it's going on? >> Such policy-change-by-technology bypasses democratic process and is dangerous. Democracy is being bypassed everywhere here.
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 12y ago
I think you are misrepresenting the position opposed to you. Pro-encryption people think that blindly trusting government is a bad idea because that trust is too easy to abuse, and cryptography is needed to maintain individual autonomy in a digital world so as to enable individuals to exert their democratic power over the government, so that policy changes can still happen in a democratic process in the future. Also, you might want to think about why you would not call it a "decree from elites" if the same people decided to not offer encryption, thus not giving individuals the option to encrypt their data as they wish. Or would you?
Lawtonfogle 12y ago
>Government has rightful authority justified by democratic process. This is satire, right? Non-democratic governments. Tyranny of the majority. Independent agencies with the ability to blackmail those in authority. >not by decree from elites using technology such as encryption We aren't forcing you to encrypt. You can post your credit card number in plain text on any forums you like. You can choose to only use websites that allow http and choose to always use http.

by sanxiyn 12y ago

Nursie 12y ago

>> Government has rightful authority justified by democratic process. Policy change should be done by democratic process, not by decree from elites using technology such as encryption. This is demonstrably false in light of releases like Snowden's stuff. There is little to no democratic oversight, and at every turn the people are denied the knowledge of what their government is doing and are therefore denied the ability to voice any opposition. How can you democratically oppose something if nobody will even tell you it's going on? >> Such policy-change-by-technology bypasses democratic process and is dangerous. Democracy is being bypassed everywhere here.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 12y ago

I think you are misrepresenting the position opposed to you. Pro-encryption people think that blindly trusting government is a bad idea because that trust is too easy to abuse, and cryptography is needed to maintain individual autonomy in a digital world so as to enable individuals to exert their democratic power over the government, so that policy changes can still happen in a democratic process in the future. Also, you might want to think about why you would not call it a "decree from elites" if the same people decided to not offer encryption, thus not giving individuals the option to encrypt their data as they wish. Or would you?

Lawtonfogle 12y ago

>Government has rightful authority justified by democratic process. This is satire, right? Non-democratic governments. Tyranny of the majority. Independent agencies with the ability to blackmail those in authority. >not by decree from elites using technology such as encryption We aren't forcing you to encrypt. You can post your credit card number in plain text on any forums you like. You can choose to only use websites that allow http and choose to always use http.