5 ms·

Forgive me, I read the article I just know little about BitTorrent. So people can still add torrents and they will work for others, it just uses a decentralized

by rscott 17y ago

Forgive me, I read the article I just know little about BitTorrent. So people can still add torrents and they will work for others, it just uses a decentralized solution to find peers rather than asking TPB's tracker? So, nothing is really changing except the way your client is working?

NikkiA 17y ago
Pretty much, yeah, TPB will presumably only be publishing DHT/MAGNET links from their index, which are able to automatically find peers/seeds in a decentralised manner. ... upon looking, they still seem to publish .torrents for now, but the huge magnet icon on their home page pretty much tells it all :)
- oikujhgfvg 17y ago
  So why won't hosting the link be aiding and abetting copyright violation?
  - pyre 17y ago
    I suspect that the lack of a tracker helps them out more (legally) than hosting .torrent files vs magnet urls.
  - NikkiA 17y ago
    Because the link doesn't point to an actual resource anywhere, it's just a hash of the file in question. That doesn't mean the MPAA won't try, they've argued that file hashs are equivalent to the file before, and they may win in the US, however, I'm not sure that arguement would hold up in the EU due to the possibility of hash collisions, and the fact that you can't make the file from the hash.
GrandMasterBirt 17y ago
Yes and no. Currently sites like torrentz.com give multiple trackers for torrents so that you can get the best set of peers/seeds for a torrent. These sites are going to become moot. Also the legal issues associated with running TPB is going to literally go away for all future business. TPB can't be held responsible for holding an MD5 hash of a file, since they don't host trackers anymore they won't be responsible for even facilitating anything. Basically the record industries have to go after the customers yet again. The only thing left is an IP masker mechanism which is super easy to use in torrents and torrents will become completely untraceable :P ok fine someone will find a way.
- eli 17y ago
  Really? How is hosting an MD5 hash (but not the file) for the purpose of enabling file sharing any different from hosting a tracker (but not the file) for the purpose of enabling file sharing?
  - TFrancis 17y ago
    It has other uses like verifying file integrity.
    - mikepurvis 17y ago
      Theoretically, sure. Might be an effort persuading a judge of that.
    - eli 17y ago
      IANAL, but I don't think "has other uses" is the legal standard you need to worry about.
qeorge 17y ago
Yes, that's right. Your tracker has already been using the DHT to find peers for quite some time. Here's a brief explanation of trackers and DHT, hope its helpful: A tracker serves 2 purposes: 1) Hosting the .torrent file (which is basically just a list of checksums for each piece) 2) Initial matchmaking of peers, and keeping track of "who has what" #1 isn't a huge problem, as the .torrent files are tiny and pretty simple to find. #2 is where most of the value of the tracker comes in, because it lets each peer in a swarm find out about the others, so they can connect directly. However, once peers have found each other they'll connect and communicate directly. In the traditional torrent model, with a tracker, your client pings the tracker every 20 minutes or so for a list of new peers who have joined the swarm. From that list, you'll attempt to connect directly to new peers. A DHT (distributed hash table) is a nice hack that is meant to take load off the central tracker. In essence, instead of always asking the tracker for a list of new peers or who has a specific piece, you can ask the peers you are already connected to. Its kind of like an office, where you ask questions of your coworkers before bothering your boss. This is why you can download torrents even when the tracker is unreachable, or in this case, taken offline completely. This is also why you can download torrents from demonoid without a demonoid account - the account just gives you access to the demonoid tracker, which you don't necessarily need. I'm a little hazy on how a swarm would start without a tracker, as it seems like a decently sized swarm is needed to get the ball rolling, so to speak. Perhaps someone else can jump in?
- pyre 17y ago
  > the account just gives you access to the demonoid tracker, which you don't necessarily need. This is also why private trackers don't like DHT and discourage its use.

by rscott 17y ago

NikkiA 17y ago

Pretty much, yeah, TPB will presumably only be publishing DHT/MAGNET links from their index, which are able to automatically find peers/seeds in a decentralised manner. ... upon looking, they still seem to publish .torrents for now, but the huge magnet icon on their home page pretty much tells it all :)

oikujhgfvg 17y ago
So why won't hosting the link be aiding and abetting copyright violation?
- pyre 17y ago
  I suspect that the lack of a tracker helps them out more (legally) than hosting .torrent files vs magnet urls.
- NikkiA 17y ago
  Because the link doesn't point to an actual resource anywhere, it's just a hash of the file in question. That doesn't mean the MPAA won't try, they've argued that file hashs are equivalent to the file before, and they may win in the US, however, I'm not sure that arguement would hold up in the EU due to the possibility of hash collisions, and the fact that you can't make the file from the hash.

GrandMasterBirt 17y ago

Yes and no. Currently sites like torrentz.com give multiple trackers for torrents so that you can get the best set of peers/seeds for a torrent. These sites are going to become moot. Also the legal issues associated with running TPB is going to literally go away for all future business. TPB can't be held responsible for holding an MD5 hash of a file, since they don't host trackers anymore they won't be responsible for even facilitating anything. Basically the record industries have to go after the customers yet again. The only thing left is an IP masker mechanism which is super easy to use in torrents and torrents will become completely untraceable :P ok fine someone will find a way.

eli 17y ago
Really? How is hosting an MD5 hash (but not the file) for the purpose of enabling file sharing any different from hosting a tracker (but not the file) for the purpose of enabling file sharing?
- TFrancis 17y ago
  It has other uses like verifying file integrity.
  - mikepurvis 17y ago
    Theoretically, sure. Might be an effort persuading a judge of that.
  - eli 17y ago
    IANAL, but I don't think "has other uses" is the legal standard you need to worry about.

qeorge 17y ago

Yes, that's right. Your tracker has already been using the DHT to find peers for quite some time. Here's a brief explanation of trackers and DHT, hope its helpful: A tracker serves 2 purposes: 1) Hosting the .torrent file (which is basically just a list of checksums for each piece) 2) Initial matchmaking of peers, and keeping track of "who has what" #1 isn't a huge problem, as the .torrent files are tiny and pretty simple to find. #2 is where most of the value of the tracker comes in, because it lets each peer in a swarm find out about the others, so they can connect directly. However, once peers have found each other they'll connect and communicate directly. In the traditional torrent model, with a tracker, your client pings the tracker every 20 minutes or so for a list of new peers who have joined the swarm. From that list, you'll attempt to connect directly to new peers. A DHT (distributed hash table) is a nice hack that is meant to take load off the central tracker. In essence, instead of always asking the tracker for a list of new peers or who has a specific piece, you can ask the peers you are already connected to. Its kind of like an office, where you ask questions of your coworkers before bothering your boss. This is why you can download torrents even when the tracker is unreachable, or in this case, taken offline completely. This is also why you can download torrents from demonoid without a demonoid account - the account just gives you access to the demonoid tracker, which you don't necessarily need. I'm a little hazy on how a swarm would start without a tracker, as it seems like a decently sized swarm is needed to get the ball rolling, so to speak. Perhaps someone else can jump in?

pyre 17y ago
> the account just gives you access to the demonoid tracker, which you don't necessarily need. This is also why private trackers don't like DHT and discourage its use.