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They mercifully waited until Java caught up a bit with version 8. Seriously, they could have fair chance, C# was so much better, but today it's still quite bet

They mercifully waited until Java caught up a bit with version 8. Seriously, they could have fair chance, C# was so much better, but today it's still quite better but java is proven and has more libs.

coldtea 12y ago
Java, with Oracle at the wheel, is not going anywhere. They've added closures in 8, big deal. C# is centuries ahead of Java 8, and with even more to come faster. And I'm saying that as an old Java dev (for 8 years up until 2008 or so) who have only dabbled in C#.
- snarfy 12y ago
  Yep, the problem with Java is Oracle.
  - Gibbon1 12y ago
    I have to say, the two best things that happened to language design in the last fifteen years was. 1. Sun sued Microsoft for trying to improve Java. And so Gates went out and hired the guy that designed Turbo Pascal and Delphi to head up C# development. Because of course java and it's libraries are completely unsuitable for desktop development. 2. Oracle bought Sun and suddenly every company that absolutely cannot tolerate being Larry Ellison's b.. started investing in in-house programing languages. All those big companies have spent oodles of money on making sure Larry can't drink their milkshake. NAnyway as a sometime C#/.net code slopper I welcome Microsoft tossing their hat in ring. Seriously Linux and iOS seriously needs these tools.
    - p_l 12y ago
      IIRC, Sun sued Microsoft for creating & pushing proprietary extension that, when used, limited the created application to Windows platform and MS' JVM. Not for improving Java itself, afaik.
- apalmer 12y ago
  Ehhh, When Sun was at the helm Java was stuck in quicksand even worse than today. Its only a few years ago.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    Later day SUN yes. But 1996-2005 SUN made Java the #1 name in the enterprise and education space back in the day.
    - saiya-jin 12y ago
      yes but there was no serious matured & backed competition
- IndianAstronaut 12y ago
  The libraries still leave a lot to be asked for. Not to mention that much of the 'big data' world is all JVM.
- mike_hearn 12y ago
  Yeah, but a lot of the features they're adding or just talking about adding to C# are already in more modern JVM languages like Kotlin / Scala / Ceylon. Kotlin in particular has quite a lot of the things like people like in C# (no full equivalent to linq though), and some things that are only pencilled in tentatively for the version of C# after next, like full nullability in the type system. And you can convert Java files to Kotlin with a single keypress, and your entire project still compiles, so there's a migration path for Java devs to Kotlin whereas there isn't one from Java to C#, really. So yes the Java language moves slowly. However Oracle/Sun have barely been trying with the Java language: the bulk of their efforts are going into things like upgrading the standard library, better virtual machines, better support for more types of languages, better performance etc. I think they've pretty much bitten the bullet on letting other companies run with language research and development (like JetBrains)

coldtea 12y ago

Java, with Oracle at the wheel, is not going anywhere. They've added closures in 8, big deal. C# is centuries ahead of Java 8, and with even more to come faster. And I'm saying that as an old Java dev (for 8 years up until 2008 or so) who have only dabbled in C#.

snarfy 12y ago
Yep, the problem with Java is Oracle.
- Gibbon1 12y ago
  I have to say, the two best things that happened to language design in the last fifteen years was. 1. Sun sued Microsoft for trying to improve Java. And so Gates went out and hired the guy that designed Turbo Pascal and Delphi to head up C# development. Because of course java and it's libraries are completely unsuitable for desktop development. 2. Oracle bought Sun and suddenly every company that absolutely cannot tolerate being Larry Ellison's b.. started investing in in-house programing languages. All those big companies have spent oodles of money on making sure Larry can't drink their milkshake. NAnyway as a sometime C#/.net code slopper I welcome Microsoft tossing their hat in ring. Seriously Linux and iOS seriously needs these tools.
  - p_l 12y ago
    IIRC, Sun sued Microsoft for creating & pushing proprietary extension that, when used, limited the created application to Windows platform and MS' JVM. Not for improving Java itself, afaik.
apalmer 12y ago
Ehhh, When Sun was at the helm Java was stuck in quicksand even worse than today. Its only a few years ago.
- coldtea 12y ago
  Later day SUN yes. But 1996-2005 SUN made Java the #1 name in the enterprise and education space back in the day.
  - saiya-jin 12y ago
    yes but there was no serious matured & backed competition
IndianAstronaut 12y ago
The libraries still leave a lot to be asked for. Not to mention that much of the 'big data' world is all JVM.
mike_hearn 12y ago
Yeah, but a lot of the features they're adding or just talking about adding to C# are already in more modern JVM languages like Kotlin / Scala / Ceylon. Kotlin in particular has quite a lot of the things like people like in C# (no full equivalent to linq though), and some things that are only pencilled in tentatively for the version of C# after next, like full nullability in the type system. And you can convert Java files to Kotlin with a single keypress, and your entire project still compiles, so there's a migration path for Java devs to Kotlin whereas there isn't one from Java to C#, really. So yes the Java language moves slowly. However Oracle/Sun have barely been trying with the Java language: the bulk of their efforts are going into things like upgrading the standard library, better virtual machines, better support for more types of languages, better performance etc. I think they've pretty much bitten the bullet on letting other companies run with language research and development (like JetBrains)