4 ms·

Cross platform developers tools by Microsoft! Great news! MS has some of the best developer tools out there. In my opinion, the only downside has been the depen

Cross platform developers tools by Microsoft! Great news! MS has some of the best developer tools out there. In my opinion, the only downside has been the dependency on the Windows platform. As a developer, I feel much more comfortable in a Unix environment. This move was unthinkable a decade ago. I'm very glad to see MS moving in this direction. Just because of this announcement I want to start playing with TypeScript and C# again.

dchichkov 11y ago
This move was very thinkable a decade ago. Even two decades. In fact, a good example from 1995: From Wikipedia: The strategy and phrase "embrace, extend and extinguish", was first introduced in the United States v. Microsoft antitrust trial when the vice president of Intel, Steven McGeady, testified[8] that Microsoft vice president Paul Maritz used the phrase in a 1995 meeting with Intel to describe Microsoft's strategy toward Netscape, Java, and the Internet. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguis...
- pyre 11y ago
  Even when Microsoft 'Embraced and Extended' Java, it was only on the Windows platform. It was not cross-platform. The whole point of that methodology wasn't to make sure that everyone was using Microsoft-flavoured Java, but to make sure that everyone was using Microsoft-flavoured Java on the Microsoft Windows platform.
  - aaronbrethorst 11y ago
    It was not cross-platform Cross-platform didn't mean much in 1995. Which other platform was there at the time? Apple was dead in the water. Red Hat had just come into existence. Netscape Navigator 1.0 had just shipped in December 1994.
    - tracker1 11y ago
      Arguably windows didn't have the hold it does now in 1995... in 1995, DR-DOS/Desqview and other UIs were prominent, and OS/2 was more popular as a desktop than Linux has ever been (as a ratio), not sure about OSX today. That also doesn't count Apple's penetration at the time which really wasn't as insignificant as you make it out to be. A lot of that changed starting with Windows 95. Though, it's really 1998 that MS practices in terms of embrace/extend/extinguish was at their top.
    - webreac 11y ago
      I finished my school in 1993. None of the computer science teaching was on PC. I have used mainly sun but also HP, next and VAX computers. PC were only used for word and excel. The school was lending special network card for the few pupils (less than 10 among 400) who had linux on their PC. The common network card (we had network plug in our rooms) was not supported by linux. Even if linux was not mainstream, Cross-platform had already a meaning at that time and djgpp was well known to run programs on dos (for example caml-light, the ancestor of ocaml).
    - pyre 11y ago
      The fact that Java was device-agnostic due to the JVM is something that Microsoft viewed as a threat. Bill Gates saw Netscape as a threat with their plugin system because of the idea that the OS would just be a shell to the browser which would run programs via plugins. This one of the reasons that they wanted to destroy the Internet. They feared that it would make Windows irrelevant. "Write once, run everywhere" is a threat to a company whose entire business model is based on "everywhere" being owned by them.
      - sangnoir 11y ago
        Marc Andreessen probably stoked Microsoft's paranoia when he said "[Netscape will soon reduce Windows to] a poorly debugged set of device drivers"[1] 1. http://www.wired.com/2012/04/ff_andreessen/2/ http://www.wired.com/2012/04/ff_andreessen/2/
    - kgwgk 11y ago
      I'm not sure what the reference to Netscape Navigator is supposed to mean, but I find interesting that 2.02 (released in 1996) was available on all these platforms: > Windows3.1 > Windows95/NT > Macintosh > BSD > Linux > SunOS > Solaris > HP-UX > OSF/1 > Irix > AIX > OS/2 > OpenVMS VAX > OpenVMS Alpha
- frik 11y ago
  It seems Microsoft has influenced JavaScript/ES v6 with their TypeScript intermediate language lead by Anders Hejlsberg. Given the vast TypeScript code based that MS wrote for SharePoint 365, Visual Studio Online/Code, etc. it seems more than logical. But, read on: BRENDAN [Eich (JavaScript creator)]: Again, TypeScript is smart because it’s embracing and extending. Let’s hope Microsoft doesn’t try to extinguish. That’s the third E. JAMISON: [Laughs] BRENDAN: I don’t think they will. I think they actually bought into JavaScript at some level. And I’ve talked to people like Anders Hejlsberg about this. But Brendan Eich answered to my thread by replying to a parent: ES6 and the Harmony agenda influenced TypeScript. Where TS went its own way on things like open modules, MS has promised to track the Ecma standard versions ASAP. In particular, TS classes were purely an extension to ES6's design, while ES6 was not frozen. There was not feedback the other way, at least not phrased in terms of TS -- the MS folks on TC39 had to make more generalized arguments for changing the draft ES6 spec. Maybe after more people know about Visual Studio Code some others share the "German angst" about their common business tactics a bit too. I would prefer if they don't turn JavaScript into C# Trojan horse style. Hopefully things have changed since Satya Nadella took over. You can read the full thread there, it's just 3 days old: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9442011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9442011
- myth_buster 11y ago
  The quote: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. And those who can are condemned to see others repeat it. comes to mind when I see the enthusiasm in this thread. The top comment itself seems like a blind praise one would hear in a cult.
  - rbanffy 11y ago
    The one thing that annoys me most as I grow older (and, hopefully wiser) is the loss of this enthusiasm you mention.
    - myth_buster 11y ago
      I think i should have used "Excitement" instead. On your point, my enthusiasm grown with the more I learn as I see more potential that I would not have given my previous lack of knowledge.

dchichkov 11y ago

This move was very thinkable a decade ago. Even two decades. In fact, a good example from 1995: From Wikipedia: The strategy and phrase "embrace, extend and extinguish", was first introduced in the United States v. Microsoft antitrust trial when the vice president of Intel, Steven McGeady, testified[8] that Microsoft vice president Paul Maritz used the phrase in a 1995 meeting with Intel to describe Microsoft's strategy toward Netscape, Java, and the Internet. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguis...

pyre 11y ago
Even when Microsoft 'Embraced and Extended' Java, it was only on the Windows platform. It was not cross-platform. The whole point of that methodology wasn't to make sure that everyone was using Microsoft-flavoured Java, but to make sure that everyone was using Microsoft-flavoured Java on the Microsoft Windows platform.
- aaronbrethorst 11y ago
  It was not cross-platform Cross-platform didn't mean much in 1995. Which other platform was there at the time? Apple was dead in the water. Red Hat had just come into existence. Netscape Navigator 1.0 had just shipped in December 1994.
  - tracker1 11y ago
    Arguably windows didn't have the hold it does now in 1995... in 1995, DR-DOS/Desqview and other UIs were prominent, and OS/2 was more popular as a desktop than Linux has ever been (as a ratio), not sure about OSX today. That also doesn't count Apple's penetration at the time which really wasn't as insignificant as you make it out to be. A lot of that changed starting with Windows 95. Though, it's really 1998 that MS practices in terms of embrace/extend/extinguish was at their top.
  - webreac 11y ago
    I finished my school in 1993. None of the computer science teaching was on PC. I have used mainly sun but also HP, next and VAX computers. PC were only used for word and excel. The school was lending special network card for the few pupils (less than 10 among 400) who had linux on their PC. The common network card (we had network plug in our rooms) was not supported by linux. Even if linux was not mainstream, Cross-platform had already a meaning at that time and djgpp was well known to run programs on dos (for example caml-light, the ancestor of ocaml).
  - pyre 11y ago
    The fact that Java was device-agnostic due to the JVM is something that Microsoft viewed as a threat. Bill Gates saw Netscape as a threat with their plugin system because of the idea that the OS would just be a shell to the browser which would run programs via plugins. This one of the reasons that they wanted to destroy the Internet. They feared that it would make Windows irrelevant. "Write once, run everywhere" is a threat to a company whose entire business model is based on "everywhere" being owned by them.
    - sangnoir 11y ago
      Marc Andreessen probably stoked Microsoft's paranoia when he said "[Netscape will soon reduce Windows to] a poorly debugged set of device drivers"[1] 1. http://www.wired.com/2012/04/ff_andreessen/2/ http://www.wired.com/2012/04/ff_andreessen/2/
  - kgwgk 11y ago
    I'm not sure what the reference to Netscape Navigator is supposed to mean, but I find interesting that 2.02 (released in 1996) was available on all these platforms: > Windows3.1 > Windows95/NT > Macintosh > BSD > Linux > SunOS > Solaris > HP-UX > OSF/1 > Irix > AIX > OS/2 > OpenVMS VAX > OpenVMS Alpha
frik 11y ago
It seems Microsoft has influenced JavaScript/ES v6 with their TypeScript intermediate language lead by Anders Hejlsberg. Given the vast TypeScript code based that MS wrote for SharePoint 365, Visual Studio Online/Code, etc. it seems more than logical. But, read on: BRENDAN [Eich (JavaScript creator)]: Again, TypeScript is smart because it’s embracing and extending. Let’s hope Microsoft doesn’t try to extinguish. That’s the third E. JAMISON: [Laughs] BRENDAN: I don’t think they will. I think they actually bought into JavaScript at some level. And I’ve talked to people like Anders Hejlsberg about this. But Brendan Eich answered to my thread by replying to a parent: ES6 and the Harmony agenda influenced TypeScript. Where TS went its own way on things like open modules, MS has promised to track the Ecma standard versions ASAP. In particular, TS classes were purely an extension to ES6's design, while ES6 was not frozen. There was not feedback the other way, at least not phrased in terms of TS -- the MS folks on TC39 had to make more generalized arguments for changing the draft ES6 spec. Maybe after more people know about Visual Studio Code some others share the "German angst" about their common business tactics a bit too. I would prefer if they don't turn JavaScript into C# Trojan horse style. Hopefully things have changed since Satya Nadella took over. You can read the full thread there, it's just 3 days old: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9442011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9442011
myth_buster 11y ago
The quote: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. And those who can are condemned to see others repeat it. comes to mind when I see the enthusiasm in this thread. The top comment itself seems like a blind praise one would hear in a cult.
- rbanffy 11y ago
  The one thing that annoys me most as I grow older (and, hopefully wiser) is the loss of this enthusiasm you mention.
  - myth_buster 11y ago
    I think i should have used "Excitement" instead. On your point, my enthusiasm grown with the more I learn as I see more potential that I would not have given my previous lack of knowledge.