4 ms·

This is an example of the NIMBYism that's unfortunately common here. The homes in the areas with the worst traffic (ie, Westside) are very expensive (>$1million

This is an example of the NIMBYism that's unfortunately common here. The homes in the areas with the worst traffic (ie, Westside) are very expensive (>$1million) and are also usually in hilly areas with twisty, narrow streets. While I can't blame the residents for hating the extra traffic, OTOH at peak times of day the main thoroughfares are almost literally nonfunctional due to congestion. I drove for three hours yesterday morning and went a total of maybe 8-10 miles--and that was avoiding the freeways and using 'secret' backroad shortcuts. We really need to get serious about stopping subsidies for freeways and other outdated modes of transporation, and instead fund efficient, modern mass transit. Roads designed for single passenger cars are the steam engines of the 21st century.

dudifordMann 11y ago
This may very well be reflective of my ignorance of that area, but would a bicycle not suffice for an 8 to 10 mile trip? If an average speed of a bicycle is say 10mph, then you've already cut your time by two hours! Of course.. I believe most American cities and roadways are not well designed for commuter cyclists. Perhaps we need a serious look into the bike highways of Copenhagen.
- lavamantis 11y ago
  The mayor has a plan for LA. Opinions are mixed, but at least someone is trying to do something. http://la.streetsblog.org/2015/04/08/garcetti-unveils-sustainable-city-plan-includes-transportation-and-livability-goals/ http://la.streetsblog.org/2015/04/08/garcetti-unveils-sustai...
- marssaxman 11y ago
  In California? it'd work for half the year; the other half, you'd die of heatstroke.
  - dudifordMann 11y ago
    Interesting point. I'm on the west coast, and our summers tend to be much hotter, and winters much colder. So I suppose, not only bike friendly roads are needed, but also a whole biking culture would need to be established to allow employees to change into work clothing from weather sensitive bike gear... hmmm, complexities...
    - marssaxman 11y ago
      I may have been engaging in some mild hyperbole there, but one big reason I got the hell out of Sacramento and now live up north in blissfully cool, shady, overcast Seattle was that I couldn't stand the 100F-plus summers. It's hard enough just enduring that kind of heat; getting out in the sun and sweating on your way to/from work is just... not something I would ever do. But maybe LA is not as bad as the Central Valley, I don't know.
- bkeroack 11y ago
  In some instances, most definitely yes! There are areas of the LA basin that are reasonably flat and commuting by bicycle is becoming more popular. In my particular instance it involved going through the Sepulveda Pass (elevation ~1000ft/300m) and back again. Most people would not consider it reasonable to use a bike for that trip: 1) the most direct route is the enormous 12-lane 405 freeway which forbids bicycles, 2) indirect routes are windy canyon roads that have drivers screaming through them in Porches at 80mph. Even if you were physically fit enough to make the trip it's still too dangerous.
tptacek 11y ago
It may be NIMBYism in LA, but it's not NIMBYism in Chicago, which is a giant city of neighborhoods --- with very diverse demographics --- made of residential streets connected by high-traffic arteries. I used Waze for a little while (I stopped because it didn't work very well for me) and it routinely had me cutting through residential neighborhoods, which really did feel wrong to me.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  I think its wrong, sure, but what's wrong is that the residential neighborhoods are a more efficient route than the supposed arteries. The problem isn't that that information is available to or used by travelers, the problem is that its true in the first place.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    If your point is that the best public policy response to Waze doesn't involve changing Waze directly, I agree. If your point is that the best public policy response to Waze is that cities suck it up and redesign their street grids or accept high traffic down residential streets, I disagree. The right response is for the city to enforce limits on how residential streets are used, which is exactly what they're going to do, because they've been doing it for decades.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > If your point is that the best public policy response to Waze doesn't involve changing Waze directly, I agree. That's part of my point, sure. > If your point is that the best public policy response to Waze is that cities suck it up and redesign their street grids or accept high traffic down residential streets, I disagree. The right response is for the city to enforce limits on how residential streets are used, which is exactly what they're going to do, because they've been doing it for decades. Cities have been designing (and redesigning, where existing residential streets weren't designed with this in mind, or the surrounding environment has changed, or new design techniques have been developed) residential streets to make them unusable for through traffic while usable for local and pedestrian/bicycle traffic for almost as long as they've been enforcing local traffic restrictions, and (re)design, despite higher capital costs than enforcement, is generally more successful, lasting, and long-term cost-effective solution than enforcement, because it has lower ongoing costs than even the rather porous enforcement that cities ever bother to deploy (much less than any level of enforcement that could even approximate the degree of compliance that is achieved by just not having residential roads inherently usable for through traffic.)
jcfrei 11y ago
I wouldn't be so quick with your judgement on freeways though. Autonomously driving cars might alleviate a lot of the traffic problems we currently encounter.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
lavamantis 11y ago
Mass transit is the way to go but folks need to speak up. Call or email your representatives so they know to fight for the right things. Everyone knows traffic is awful in LA but the status quo will remain in effect if no one seems to care about changing it. Personally, I gave up on the commute and just rented an apartment 9 minutes away from work and 5 minutes away from the new expo line (train line from Santa Monica to downtown LA) by bicycle.
- jefurii 11y ago
  > Personally, I gave up on the commute and just rented an apartment 9 minutes away from work Not everyone can do that -- it's harder when you have kids.
scelerat 11y ago
You know you can bike 8-10 miles in an hour or less, right? Not saying that's the solution for your specific situation, but a lot of what we're talking about comes down to collective inability to move beyond 100% car culture and imagine different and better ways to get to where we need to go.

dudifordMann 11y ago

This may very well be reflective of my ignorance of that area, but would a bicycle not suffice for an 8 to 10 mile trip? If an average speed of a bicycle is say 10mph, then you've already cut your time by two hours! Of course.. I believe most American cities and roadways are not well designed for commuter cyclists. Perhaps we need a serious look into the bike highways of Copenhagen.

lavamantis 11y ago
The mayor has a plan for LA. Opinions are mixed, but at least someone is trying to do something. http://la.streetsblog.org/2015/04/08/garcetti-unveils-sustainable-city-plan-includes-transportation-and-livability-goals/ http://la.streetsblog.org/2015/04/08/garcetti-unveils-sustai...
marssaxman 11y ago
In California? it'd work for half the year; the other half, you'd die of heatstroke.
- dudifordMann 11y ago
  Interesting point. I'm on the west coast, and our summers tend to be much hotter, and winters much colder. So I suppose, not only bike friendly roads are needed, but also a whole biking culture would need to be established to allow employees to change into work clothing from weather sensitive bike gear... hmmm, complexities...
  - marssaxman 11y ago
    I may have been engaging in some mild hyperbole there, but one big reason I got the hell out of Sacramento and now live up north in blissfully cool, shady, overcast Seattle was that I couldn't stand the 100F-plus summers. It's hard enough just enduring that kind of heat; getting out in the sun and sweating on your way to/from work is just... not something I would ever do. But maybe LA is not as bad as the Central Valley, I don't know.
bkeroack 11y ago
In some instances, most definitely yes! There are areas of the LA basin that are reasonably flat and commuting by bicycle is becoming more popular. In my particular instance it involved going through the Sepulveda Pass (elevation ~1000ft/300m) and back again. Most people would not consider it reasonable to use a bike for that trip: 1) the most direct route is the enormous 12-lane 405 freeway which forbids bicycles, 2) indirect routes are windy canyon roads that have drivers screaming through them in Porches at 80mph. Even if you were physically fit enough to make the trip it's still too dangerous.

tptacek 11y ago

It may be NIMBYism in LA, but it's not NIMBYism in Chicago, which is a giant city of neighborhoods --- with very diverse demographics --- made of residential streets connected by high-traffic arteries. I used Waze for a little while (I stopped because it didn't work very well for me) and it routinely had me cutting through residential neighborhoods, which really did feel wrong to me.

dragonwriter 11y ago
I think its wrong, sure, but what's wrong is that the residential neighborhoods are a more efficient route than the supposed arteries. The problem isn't that that information is available to or used by travelers, the problem is that its true in the first place.
- tptacek 11y ago
  If your point is that the best public policy response to Waze doesn't involve changing Waze directly, I agree. If your point is that the best public policy response to Waze is that cities suck it up and redesign their street grids or accept high traffic down residential streets, I disagree. The right response is for the city to enforce limits on how residential streets are used, which is exactly what they're going to do, because they've been doing it for decades.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > If your point is that the best public policy response to Waze doesn't involve changing Waze directly, I agree. That's part of my point, sure. > If your point is that the best public policy response to Waze is that cities suck it up and redesign their street grids or accept high traffic down residential streets, I disagree. The right response is for the city to enforce limits on how residential streets are used, which is exactly what they're going to do, because they've been doing it for decades. Cities have been designing (and redesigning, where existing residential streets weren't designed with this in mind, or the surrounding environment has changed, or new design techniques have been developed) residential streets to make them unusable for through traffic while usable for local and pedestrian/bicycle traffic for almost as long as they've been enforcing local traffic restrictions, and (re)design, despite higher capital costs than enforcement, is generally more successful, lasting, and long-term cost-effective solution than enforcement, because it has lower ongoing costs than even the rather porous enforcement that cities ever bother to deploy (much less than any level of enforcement that could even approximate the degree of compliance that is achieved by just not having residential roads inherently usable for through traffic.)

jcfrei 11y ago

I wouldn't be so quick with your judgement on freeways though. Autonomously driving cars might alleviate a lot of the traffic problems we currently encounter.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

lavamantis 11y ago

Mass transit is the way to go but folks need to speak up. Call or email your representatives so they know to fight for the right things. Everyone knows traffic is awful in LA but the status quo will remain in effect if no one seems to care about changing it. Personally, I gave up on the commute and just rented an apartment 9 minutes away from work and 5 minutes away from the new expo line (train line from Santa Monica to downtown LA) by bicycle.

jefurii 11y ago
> Personally, I gave up on the commute and just rented an apartment 9 minutes away from work Not everyone can do that -- it's harder when you have kids.

scelerat 11y ago

You know you can bike 8-10 miles in an hour or less, right? Not saying that's the solution for your specific situation, but a lot of what we're talking about comes down to collective inability to move beyond 100% car culture and imagine different and better ways to get to where we need to go.