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In America, you can express whatever political views you want. Of course, you might wind up with most people thinking you're an asshole for it. If you express

by beat 12y ago

In America, you can express whatever political views you want. Of course, you might wind up with most people thinking you're an asshole for it. If you express your opinion and almost everyone thinks you're an asshole, then you're either a genius, or an asshole.

lmm 12y ago
What about if a small proportion of people think you're an asshole, but they're enough to get you fired?
- beat 12y ago
  Then you needed a new job anyway.
- soylentcola 12y ago
  The flip side is that if you only discuss controversial opinions with people who agree, congrats! You're in the bubble again. Still, whenever I do run across an online or offline community where people are capable of civil debate and discussion without getting all red-faced, it can be incredibly valuable. It's how I've refined or changed many of my opinions as I got more info and perhaps I've informed the opinions of some other people as well.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  Then welcome to the fundamental conflict between freedom and capitalism.
MCRed 12y ago
When propaganda is really effective, it doesn't take a genius to be called an asshole. 40 years ago, you can express political views in america without worry of being shamed (called an asshole) or denigrated for it, unless you were being really hateful--- like joining the KKK. Now people are able to effectively paint large swaths of people who are not assholes as "hate groups" or "terrorists" or "rape apologists" and the like. Now merely disagreeing with the president makes you a racist. (Which is very ironic, given that those making the accusation of racism are doing so only because the president is black.) Political Correctness has radically changed our society, and 1984 is seeming more real every day.
- beat 12y ago
  The only thing that has really changed is that information distribution is flattened and networked now, rather than top-down authority. Everyone has the same megaphone. We're not closer to 1984 every day - we're getting farther from it, every day. 1984 was all about centralized authority, not distributed opinion. If you're getting accused of "fostering rape culture", I strongly suggest that rather than feeling victimized, you ask some women what they think of your position on a situation, and listen to them. Don't lecture, and don't whine. Ask trusted female friends, not strangers. And if you don't have women in your life that you can talk to about it, that's probably part of the problem. Always have an open mind and be willing to change your opinion based on deeper understanding and better facts. It's possible to express even radical views without offending, if you are openminded and respectful. People react poorly to dogmatism and distrust.
  - m52go 12y ago
    That would be true in a perfect world, but there's much truth in the notion that we're a victimizing culture [1]. [1] http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/03/offended-by-everything http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/03/offended-by-everything
    - beat 12y ago
      The solution to that is the one I offered - actually talking to the people who are on the other side, and asking them sincerely what is going on and what to do about it. So if, say, someone is getting called out on "rape culture" language for demanding "full disclosure" from someone talking about sexism... instead of retreating into the comforting arms of "victim culture" and "1984" references, try asking some women what they think. Don't tell, don't lecture, just ask. Have you heard of the Bechdel Test? It's a simple feminist film critique. In a movie, is there at least one scene where two women who have actual names and roles have a conversation that is not about men and what the men in the movie are doing? It's shocking how few movies pass that test (as Playboy just pointed out, The Avengers doesn't pass Bechdel Test, and a lot of the sexist language directed at Black Widow can be traced to that). I think there's a corollary to Bechdel somewhere... does a man have multiple female friends with whom he can openly and honestly discuss their experiences of sexism as women? I'll bet a lot of men don't have that at all. Their opinion of women's experiences is formed almost entirely from their own experiences, and the observations of other men. No wonder they don't get it.

by beat 12y ago

lmm 12y ago

What about if a small proportion of people think you're an asshole, but they're enough to get you fired?

beat 12y ago
Then you needed a new job anyway.
soylentcola 12y ago
The flip side is that if you only discuss controversial opinions with people who agree, congrats! You're in the bubble again. Still, whenever I do run across an online or offline community where people are capable of civil debate and discussion without getting all red-faced, it can be incredibly valuable. It's how I've refined or changed many of my opinions as I got more info and perhaps I've informed the opinions of some other people as well.
dragonwriter 12y ago
Then welcome to the fundamental conflict between freedom and capitalism.

MCRed 12y ago

When propaganda is really effective, it doesn't take a genius to be called an asshole. 40 years ago, you can express political views in america without worry of being shamed (called an asshole) or denigrated for it, unless you were being really hateful--- like joining the KKK. Now people are able to effectively paint large swaths of people who are not assholes as "hate groups" or "terrorists" or "rape apologists" and the like. Now merely disagreeing with the president makes you a racist. (Which is very ironic, given that those making the accusation of racism are doing so only because the president is black.) Political Correctness has radically changed our society, and 1984 is seeming more real every day.

beat 12y ago
The only thing that has really changed is that information distribution is flattened and networked now, rather than top-down authority. Everyone has the same megaphone. We're not closer to 1984 every day - we're getting farther from it, every day. 1984 was all about centralized authority, not distributed opinion. If you're getting accused of "fostering rape culture", I strongly suggest that rather than feeling victimized, you ask some women what they think of your position on a situation, and listen to them. Don't lecture, and don't whine. Ask trusted female friends, not strangers. And if you don't have women in your life that you can talk to about it, that's probably part of the problem. Always have an open mind and be willing to change your opinion based on deeper understanding and better facts. It's possible to express even radical views without offending, if you are openminded and respectful. People react poorly to dogmatism and distrust.
- m52go 12y ago
  That would be true in a perfect world, but there's much truth in the notion that we're a victimizing culture [1]. [1] http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/03/offended-by-everything http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/03/offended-by-everything
  - beat 12y ago
    The solution to that is the one I offered - actually talking to the people who are on the other side, and asking them sincerely what is going on and what to do about it. So if, say, someone is getting called out on "rape culture" language for demanding "full disclosure" from someone talking about sexism... instead of retreating into the comforting arms of "victim culture" and "1984" references, try asking some women what they think. Don't tell, don't lecture, just ask. Have you heard of the Bechdel Test? It's a simple feminist film critique. In a movie, is there at least one scene where two women who have actual names and roles have a conversation that is not about men and what the men in the movie are doing? It's shocking how few movies pass that test (as Playboy just pointed out, The Avengers doesn't pass Bechdel Test, and a lot of the sexist language directed at Black Widow can be traced to that). I think there's a corollary to Bechdel somewhere... does a man have multiple female friends with whom he can openly and honestly discuss their experiences of sexism as women? I'll bet a lot of men don't have that at all. Their opinion of women's experiences is formed almost entirely from their own experiences, and the observations of other men. No wonder they don't get it.