9 ms·

Those of you on HN that are past the 30+ mark. What would you add to this list?

sz4kerto 12y ago
Having a child relativizes everything else and makes life so much easier because you don't need to figure out the meaning of your life anymore and you don't even need to be successful, neither personally nor professionally. This does not mean you won't be or you can't be, it just does not matter that much anymore. And this is friggin' liberating.
- mikeg8 12y ago
  I have an amazing father and grandfathers, all of whom I am close with. I've dreamed of being a father for many years (26M) and think I'll make a great one someday based on the examples I was fortunate enough to have. But I don't like the thought that as soon as you have a child, you instantly have to be defined by that. Is reproduction really the meaning to life? (Biologists say absolutely). And saying you don't have to be successful anymore is very strange to me. Why wound't you need to be successful professionally to provide or personally to be happy? Don't you want your child to be successful, not rich but personally successful however they grow to define it? and shouldn't you show that to them by example?
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    Not reproduction: parenthood. Never mind how the kid got there; they are soon more important than everything you naïvely thought mattered. Not so much defined by that. Instead, motivated by entirely new impulses. Its not that you change your mind about success. Your mind changes, and that isn't a bad thing.
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      If there is one thing that rammed that home it was sitting next to an incubator watching O2 levels and heartbeat of an early born infant. Re-alignment of priorities would be a very mild way to describe the feeling.
      - gregpilling 12y ago
        I agree. My son spent his first week in NICU, and 6 years later had a brain aneurism, and another brain surgery at 11 years. He is fine now. Work problems are pretty insignificant in comparison.
    - peteretep 12y ago
      > Your mind changes Definitely! > and that isn't a bad thing Not yet entirely convinced on that front.
    - klibertp 12y ago
      > Your mind changes I'm very suspicious about that. Every new experience has the chance of changing the way you think, it's natural. But for something to have that much of an impact it has to involve a lot of brain chemistry. And I don't trust in being intoxicated by hormones, I'd rather use other, safer drugs for this.
  - sz4kerto 12y ago
    > But I don't like the thought that as soon as you have a child, you instantly have to be defined by that. I'm glad you brought this up. There's nothing that's forced upon you, you are not defined by this. It just happens so that most people change their priorities voluntarily and happily when they have a child. I personally continue pursuing professional success, of course. The difference is that if I become unsuccessful for any reason then the world won't collapse. So it just becomes much less important.
    - jkestner 12y ago
      Yeah, it wasn't transformative like a bolt of lightning. And I didn't instantly become one of those people who freaks out about all the parenting advice, things that might choke a baby, statistically insignificant ways of dying. I was easy-going before, still am. You may lose finite things like time, but not your identity. Parenthood only uncovers more of it.
  - FullyFunctional 12y ago
    What I found is that I'm the same person, but having children changed my perspective. I'm more conscious of how I spend my time so I hopefully waste less and still have time for both my family and myself.
  - kaiwen1 12y ago
    Until it happens to you, it's impossible to appreciate how sudden, profound and unexpected this change is (for must people). It's not a thing you plan or attempt. It's hard wired into your genes. Baby arrives. New behaviors, feelings, and priorities ensue. Whatever you were rushing around trying to do before is now less important. Your primary objective is to make sure that life over there in the crib is protected and provided for.
    - lotharbot 12y ago
      It changes most of your life in a very profound way. The people you always called "mom" and "dad" become "grandma" and "grandpa". You begin to think of your friends not just in terms of hanging out, but in terms of how they influence your child, or how their influence on you indirectly influences your child. You begin to look at the physical world with a different eye -- partly toward safety, partly just pure wonder. It completely transforms your perspective.
      - brc 12y ago
        Yes, the last thing I would have expected was re-evaluating my own friendships for that influence on influence. Not long after becoming a father I terminated a number of friendships quite abruptly. All of a sudden what I had previously thought of as 'fun guys' seemed like a toxic influence on me. The other aspect of parenthood is it brings your life design into sharp focus. Proximity to bars and restaurants and hip furnishings suddenly take a very distant back seat to access to quality neighbourhoods, schools and places to spend time with your kids. Old friends snigger that you don't go out anymore and figure your life must be so boring - sometimes they act sympathetically when you spend another Friday night in. They don't realise Friday nights in with a young family are great fun.
    - mikeg8 12y ago
      Makes sense. thank you for your reply.
    - mturmon 12y ago
      Here's a beautiful quote that expresses this profound change, and the sense that its consequences are to be accepted rather than resisted: "Let's say gravity suddenly shifted a little making everyone a little bit lighter. It would likely make the news circuit for a while and make movers and other professional lifters particularly happy. But after the scientists had explained again and again why it happened and all the potential story lines had been exhausted by newspapers and television pundits, religious zealots and idle conversationalists (“How about that gravity?”), we would accept it, perhaps with a individual joy all our own. Which is to say, even though a slight shift in gravity on Earth literally changes everything on our home planet, after awhile we’d adjust. Occasionally we might think back to the days before gravity changed with wonder and even nostalgia, but we’d know that everything being lighter is just better on one of those annoyingly and truistically difficult-to-communicate levels and continue with the practice of everyday life, with appropriate changes to this new state of lightness. Parenting for me is something like this." * This is by LA writer and critic Andrew Berardini, seen in http://www.broodwork.com/index.php?/projects/andrew-berardini/ http://www.broodwork.com/index.php?/projects/andrew-berardin....
  - joshrotenberg 12y ago
    Father of two here. I don't think the point is that you can't/won't want to succeed, it's more that the result of your success is to further the success of your kids. And that doesn't just mean "provide for your family" in the old fashioned "dinner on the table" kind of way, it has more to do with being happy with yourself, and your kids pick up on that. If you are successful, in however you define it, your family is as well. And for me, more and more as my kids grow up and become themselves, seeing them succeed (and periodically fail) feels like real success to me, more so than any pat on the back I'd get from someone else.
  - tlear 12y ago
    It changes you but it is very far from defining you. There is just a lot of joy from an unexpected place in your life all of a sudden. Just doing simple things like feed you kid some honey or biking around with them strapped to into a child seat of your bike suddenly becomes really enjoyable. But also when you go and do something that you love doing you want to share it, I brought my one and few month year old to Yosemite this winter and she was running around near Camp 4 while I bouldered. Just hours of wonder on her face it is pretty special. Then again there are some mental case parents, who lose all social connections, gain 100lb and can never be seen again by their friends. Just don't be that. I have former friends like that, it is some kind of North American phenomenon. For me it feel so nuts I really don't get how people become that.
- MrZongle2 12y ago
  Father of two here. It's true that having a child forces any responsible adult into revisiting their priorities, and some things that seemed important before parenthood suddenly aren't. I don't think it eliminates a desire to be successful: I think that it changes the parameters by which you determine success. And having a child throw up/mess on your nice clothes and shower the inside of your nice car with food and toys tends to make you settle for less in those departments, I admit. Prior to kids, I considered success to be pulling down a six-figure salary, having a nice big house and my own office at a high-profile, successful company. Now? Success is having a quiet office (size unimportant but preferably my own), enjoyable work and time to spend it with my kids before they are old enough to leave home. It is worth it, and anybody without kids who says otherwise knows not of which they speak. Parenthood is the difference between knowing the path and walking the path. If you're not a parent, you've just read the brochure.
  - innguest 12y ago
    > It is worth it, and anybody without kids who says otherwise knows not of which they speak. That's some gross generalization. Any childless bachelor could know what the "path" is like by staying over with a friend that has a child and helping out for some time. On the other hand, parents that walk the path and later find out they're not cut out for it, have to suffer quietly, and can't voice their true opinions, because it's taboo; because no one can dare fathom someone might not like kids, and so many get pressured into having them without having what it takes.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - MrZongle2 12y ago
      "That's some gross generalization. Any childless bachelor could know what the "path" is like by staying over with a friend that has a child and helping out for some time." Uh, no. Having children isn't like having a dog or being a part-time nanny or live-in tutor. It is a multi-decade commitment to raising another human being from infancy to adulthood with all of the frustrations and joys -- yes, joys -- that come along with it. "On the other hand, parents that walk the path and later find out they're not cut out for it, have to suffer quietly, and can't voice their true opinions, because it's taboo..." Who are these parents, quietly suffering? I've seen a lot of crappy parents, who complain about their kids. I've seen a lot of deadbeat parents, who up and abandon their kids. And I've seen a ton of childless adults playing backseat parent. If you've got some studies and numbers to back up this apparent crisis of parenting victims, please share.
- jkestner 12y ago
  Well said. A part of you now wants to devote resources to someone else's success. Do you invest in your own future, or the wider possibilities with a whole new human? Once you have a child, it isn't even a struggle to balance those - she will hungrily take whatever you offer, and (hopefully) you'll enjoy it. The final big step in finding your place in the universe (spoiler: not the center).
- innguest 12y ago
  Philosophy is cheaper and a more interesting kind of fun.
- petercooper 12y ago
  it just does not matter that much anymore. I don't want to slam your well put, positive point, but this was not true for me at least. Getting married and having kids has motivated me to work hard and aim high - I could have (and did) sat around on my ass playing video games for the rest of my life. Different strokes for different folks, but I'm a far more driven person after gaining responsibilities than before.
  - magic_beans 12y ago
    I think you misinterpreted OP's comment. He meant that having a child completely neutralizes the petty stress of the daily grind because you have something far more important.
    - russgray 12y ago
      For me, having kids amplified the daily grind. I hated leaving in the morning before they got up, and returning after they were in bed. Luckily this is a profession where at least some aspects of the grind are optional, and now I work remotely full-time.
- magic_beans 12y ago
  I can't tell if this makes me excited for parenthood or terrified of the demise it will bring to my own life.
  - c0ur7n3y 12y ago
    Your life will have a demise regardless.
    - JoshTriplett 12y ago
      There are those in the world working on fixing that. Personally I'm hopeful that they will be successful eventually; the question is just how soon.
      - kzhahou 12y ago
        I think he meant "life is suffering."
- wooyi 12y ago
  If anything, I felt more pressure after kids to be successful. I had to prove to them that their father was not a mediocre person. I also need to show by example - that I did not want them to be mediocre and that they should strive to be the best at what they do.
  - jkestner 12y ago
    Cool thing is, they take their metric for success from you. But you sound like you're measuring success by your role in the workplace. I'll bet they care a lot more about your role as a father.
    - wooyi 12y ago
      Yes. And for me, to be successful is to be happy with what I do for a living, and to have the freedom to pursue my dreams. Selfishly, I rather be a mediocre father and successful/happy with my career/lifelong work vs a great father and a mediocre career. We all pick our own paths. No regrets so far.
trequartista 12y ago
Learn when to back out - could be from an argument, job, partnership (personal or professional). This is very important for your sanity
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  As someone close to me once said, "Choose the hill you want to die on carefully"
nine_k 12y ago
As a friend of mine formulated, 'be friendly, calm, confident, and firm'.
venomsnake 12y ago
Ask her out ...
mtbcoder 12y ago
1) Spend more time with your family before it's too late. Call your mother, father and siblings more often. 2) Save, save and save more. Spend your money on things that matter (such as visiting your family more). I worry about the future of labor in the US.
- Rapzid 12y ago
  I can't emphasize number 2 enough. But I'll try: SAVE, SAVE, SAVE, SAVE, SAVE. Seriously, if you don't want to have to be working for the rest of your life it's time to start saving now. Maximize earnings. Maximize savings. I just realized at 31 how much savings opportunity I wasted over the past 7 years... Actually, I don't even want to calculate it up. I'm focused on the future. Save! And sleep more.
23david 12y ago
On health: Even though you're young, try and still go to the doctor every once in a while for checkups. But even if you don't like going to doctors, don't just ignore pain in your body. For example, ignoring a sore wrist or back, or ignoring digestive and sleep issues can easily lead to life-long disabilities. It's also common for people to experience mental health issues (in a way that starts to impact relationships and work performance) for the first time in their early 30s... It's a fairly common event, but it's generally really scary for everyone involved. Getting stable with medication and then also working with a trained therapist can help you pull through this.
putzdown 12y ago
Your twenties are the age of proving yourself. But this is a self-defeating goal: a person worthy of the respect and success you yearn for doesn't need them as badly as you do. Your thirties expand and narrow your world: expansion into parenting (for many) and to richer relationships, if you can survive them, with spouses. But now you know your limits, and the sky is no longer it. There's a contraction of options, but the few options you have grow deeper. By forty you know you have nothing to prove or, contrariwise, you've proven just how limited you are. You've made your bed and you're lying in it. For many this is a crisis and they struggle to break free, but there's no escaping it: you're older. You feel your own age in your mind and body (knees? back? eyes?) truly for the first time. But once you get over the shock, you realize that you're still young enough. You also realize, if you've stayed at the hard work of marriage and parenting and building skills and opportunities for a career, that you've got a lot to be confident about. You're humbler, but more powerful and capable, than ever. I haven't reached 50 yet so I have to stop there.
- rimantas 12y ago
  You should replace "Your" by "My".
  - kpennell 12y ago
    The original article doesn't. Neither do most of the comments.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
japhyr 12y ago
Work towards being satisfied, rather than being happy. Happiness is fleeting; satisfaction is lasting. We all need to play and just be happy - I'm not arguing against that. But longer term, I've often felt we're better off figuring out what makes us satisfied at the end of each day. When I'm on my deathbed, I want to be satisfied with the way I spent my life. I know that my "deathbed" could come today, or it could come 50+ years from now. That's a wild range.
adam12 12y ago
Straining on the toilet too hard can be bad for your heart. Seriously.
Torgo 12y ago
If you are depressed, do everything in your power to find the reason and address it, or you will have wasted your entire youth.
mortality 12y ago
34yo here. Experience something horrible. I grew up in a ridiculously perfect fantasyland. My parents, who have an ideal marriage, told me I was the best at everything, encouraged every dream I had, paid for college and insulated me from all of life's difficulties re: money, stress, etc. To make matters worse, I excelled right along with the praise -- made good grades, got into a top-10 college, started a company after college which was lifestyle-profitable for 7 years. (It could have been a major score if I'd executed better, but that's beside the point.) When my company started to decline post-2008, I had to go get a job. I excelled at it, but got crossways with my boss for entirely personal reasons and was fired. This back-to-back double-whammy was by far the worst experience of my life. I'd never experienced failure or rejection and my psyche/ego simply didn't know how to handle it. I sunk into a depression for 3 years. It's not hyperbole to say I almost didn't survive it. But I'm on the other side of it now. The darkness is receding. I know this because I know the double-whammy was entirely necessary for me. The spoiled brat is gone. I empathize with others. I care about the journey people have taken to the point where I meet them. None of that mattered before. It was all me, me, me, the worldbeater. Yeah I'm in my mid 30s now and the past 5 years were tough. But I'm glad I've already spanned the chasm now than in my mid-50s. Now I'm better prepared for things to come. One slightly separate piece: I used to have massive entrepreneurial angst. I was a person who looked at those who have "made" it and got angry. Angry at lack of co-founders. Angry that my school's alumni network doesn't have the best SV connections. Angry at perceived ageism in tech circles... But now I know that all advantages others might have on you -- better schooling, younger, lucky career breaks, etc -- can be trumped by one thing: traction. It doesn't matter if you're white, black, purple, one-armed, blind, gay or republican -- If you have something worth investing in, you can find investors. Period.
- JoshTriplett 12y ago
  > My parents, who have an ideal marriage, told me I was the best at everything, encouraged every dream I had, paid for college and insulated me from all of life's difficulties re: money, stress, etc. Related to this: if you have kids yourself, or you're in a position of providing guidance for kids, keep providing a safe and consistent environment for them yourself, but teach them that the world is not fair, that adults are not always right and not always consistent, that they themselves are not always the smartest person in the room (nor should they always want to be), and that other people care about themselves much more than them. Or, in short, don't just teach them that the world is awesome (though it can be); teach them how to get what they want out of a world that's not out to hand it to them.
JoshTriplett 12y ago
Related to #2 and #3: don't fall into the trap of believing that it's supposed to take a long time to do something important. Work expands to fill the time alotted. If you get it in your head that the Great Work you're trying to do will take you some number of years, it will, or it will take even longer, if you finish at all. Commit to yourself now that you won't let work expand to fill the time alotted. Don't accept that from yourself, and don't accept that from others. (Within reason; everything can't get done overnight, but a "multi-year research project" often doesn't really need many person-years worth of effort, it just turns out that way because people let it.)
KineticLensman 12y ago
53 year old here. When you are making really long term plans, bear in mind that your fitness will decline. Optimise out things that will make your back ache.
stevenmays 12y ago
I wrote a blog post about this very recently: http://stevenmays.org/turning-30/ http://stevenmays.org/turning-30/
marincounty 12y ago
This will sound narcisstic, and calculating, but here goes; Make friends with people younger than you. I never felt comfortable with people from my generation. I seemed to become friends with people older than myself. I didn't do it on a conscious level, but it happened. I would buy things like 8 person rafts, double kayaks, huge tents. Everything I planned for had another close person/girlfriend in mind. They all passed away. As to money, save that money you made in your 20-30's. For some reason(I think testosterone) most of the people I knew in life made the big money in their 20-30's. These were people without fancy degrees--four year degree at best. Oh yea, you can be the best at a lot of things, and feel like you are on top of the world. You can feel like you can accomplish anything. All that can change overnight with mental illness. I had a slight nervous breakdown(not psychotic), and I went from being one of the better students in graduate school--to someone who couldn't drive to the school a week later. Life has been a struggle since. I tried therapy and it just didn't help. Prescription drugs did alleviate some of the missery, but I am now addicted to two drugs going on twenty years. There was no history of mental illness in my family. I didn't even feel stressed when I brokedown. (I did have a fear of death. I had typical worries of a twenty something year old.) I just blew a gasket. Yes, after dealing with psychiatrists who really didn't have any answers--that's what I feel what happened. I know it's rare. None of my classmates from high school/college experienced anything close to my symptomology. It did get better with time though. I usually don't tell anyone because I know it's rare. I do have a innate understanding of homelessness because of my condition though, and cringe when I hear, "You can do anything! It just takes proper planning!". Sometimes your brain just goes haywire.
- ddingus 12y ago
  And older. I have a wide array of friends, and what I've found is some of them become mentors, and we become mentors and it can all add up to this nice resonance where we give and receive energy, perspective, help, opportunity.
jacquesm 12y ago
- being smart and being wise aren't the same thing - not everything in the world can be expressed as an equation - conserve your body as if your life depends on it, it does - there is a story behind everybody
kamaal 12y ago
Start saving and investing as early as you can. If you haven't, do it on a war footing. Get rid of debt. The more you invest, the more you are likely to benefit over time. In fact you may be surprised more than anything else out there. In many cases, even more than careers, job, raises and promotions- investments play a very critical role in how well you are going to do financially.
- peteretep 12y ago
  > Start saving and investing as early as you can. If you > haven't, do it on a war footing. Get rid of debt. Yeah, maybe. My net positive worth went red about age 18, and stayed that way (sometimes drastically) until I was about 30, when I finally clawed my way back out of the debt hole. The decisions I made, the things I learned, the rash choices I made, decisions to quit jobs and do something exciting when I couldn't afford it, randomly moving to another country without any kind of security net, dumb startups that I didn't have the savings to bootstrap properly, holidays I took that I couldn't afford, needing to execute on things because without it I wouldn't eat, starting (and then finishing) an expensive degree I couldn't afford, the partying I did... I wouldn't change it for a thing. If I die tomorrow, I will have lived. Those experiences are what have put me in the very solid earning position I'm in now. I save nearly 70% of what I earn, I've been out of debt and had solid savings for a while, and I have a great standard of living. Leaving it all to Lady Luck and hoping that it works out OK in the end is obviously a risky strategy, but the idea that your 20s should be about scrimping and saving rather than getting out there and screwing stuff up is equally risky.
  - tonyedgecombe 12y ago
    Think how much more you could have done if you didn't have to pay all that debt interest.
    - peteretep 12y ago
      The only way I could have done more would have been a second body and a time machine.
trustfundbaby 12y ago
your 20's are when you discover your strengths ... your 30's are when you come to terms with your weaknesses ...
soidjmwiebsfew 12y ago
This advice is clearly not for everyone but it has been working for me for many years: Do your best not to off yourself until your parents are dead. Avoid romantic relationships and avoid inflicting your accursed genes on another generation. Do not make promises that you cannot keep. Seek out and savor close friends. Know yourself and treat yourself with kindness. Reflect on your astonishing fortune to have been born in a time and place where someone like you has a shot at enjoying life. Some people will attempt to persuade you that living in agony is virtuous. It is not. Tell them white lies.
randomsearch 12y ago
Meta-lesson: if you want to learn more wisdom, experiences are key. Get a diversity of experiences, do things that are outside your comfort zone and you will collect wisdom. Don't be scared to take detours in life. Travel, socialise with unusual people, try your hand at everything. Never stop learning. 1. Good friends are more valuable than cool friends. Learn who to trust and who's a flake. Remain friends with the flakes, but don't rely on them. 2. Don't stay where you're unhappy. Give it some time, then move on. Try something else. 3. Focus, focus, focus when you're doing one thing. Other times, branch out. 4. When you're young you are time rich and cash poor; when you're old you are cash rich and time poor. Don't put things off until you're older - travelling when retired will not inform your life. 5. The happiest people have good work-life balance. This may not go down well on HN, but having seen people around the world living different lives, this is a general observation. A relative was a counsellor, and he told me "No-one [at the end of their life] ever wishes they'd spent more time at the office." Perhaps working long hours for a while with a view to achieving this balance later is OK. 6. Forget the money. https://vimeo.com/63961985 https://vimeo.com/63961985 7. Take holidays. Regularly. Force yourself to. 8. The secret to stamina is sleep. 9. Mix with people of all demographics, or you will end up with a narrow view of life. 10. If you've thought about doing something for a long time, you should probably do it. 11. If you're having a conversation with someone about breaking up with your partner, then it is time to break up, or at least, take a break and see how it feels - don't waste your time and your partner's time procrastinating. 12. In relationships, you should always make extra effort, even when you've already made extra effort. Relationships take a lot of work, long-term. Surprise your partner. 13. Really listen to people. It's such a hard skill to develop. Start today. 14. Realise how lucky you are to wake up with hot water, heating, and nice food. Many people in the world don't have these luxuries. Living on no money when travelling is a good way to learn this. 15. Travel. But don't party the whole time. Often travelling is best done mid-late 20s when you've done the partying thing. Stay with local people. Don't plan too much. Get into the countryside. 16. If you're writing an email and it feels uncomfortable, you should probably not send it. Or at least wait for the morning :-). 17. Sometimes, deciding to do nothing is a decision in itself. Solutions can present themselves. 18. Have a huge party every birthday. Don't fight ageing, embrace it and celebrate being alive :-). 19. Don't criticise things without providing an alternative. If you feel angry in an argument, you're probably wrong. 20. Don't do a PhD straight after you graduate. 21. When in love in a relationship, throw yourself into it. Don't have regrets. Always tell people how you feel. It may be a car-crash at the time, but you'll learn from it and feel better about it your whole life. 22. At the end of your life, they're going to put you in a box in a hole in the ground, and that's it. Every moment of life is precious. When you're on your deathbed, even the idea of one more normal day at work will look unimaginably brilliant. Develop that feeling now. 23. Meditate. Unlearn what you have learned. 24. Whenever you think something nice about a person, say it. There's enough negativity in the world. Love your friends and tell them you love them. 25. Read books. Lots and lots of books. Read "East of Eden" by Steinbeck. You'll see why. 26. In love, in work, in life, never ever settle. It is better to be alone than to marry a person you don't truly love. 27. When giving people advice, they usually only want you to confirm their decision. Listen and talk things over. And even if you do give them advice, they'll just ignore and do what they want in the long-term. 28. Old(er) people are a great source of wisdom, but you won't take their advice seriously until you've experienced it yourself.
mesozoic 12y ago
Don't try to get all of your fulfillment from work. You will have a bad time.

Having a child relativizes everything else and makes life so much easier because you don't need to figure out the meaning of your life anymore and you don't even need to be successful, neither personally nor professionally. This does not mean you won't be or you can't be, it just does not matter that much anymore. And this is friggin' liberating.

mikeg8 12y ago
I have an amazing father and grandfathers, all of whom I am close with. I've dreamed of being a father for many years (26M) and think I'll make a great one someday based on the examples I was fortunate enough to have. But I don't like the thought that as soon as you have a child, you instantly have to be defined by that. Is reproduction really the meaning to life? (Biologists say absolutely). And saying you don't have to be successful anymore is very strange to me. Why wound't you need to be successful professionally to provide or personally to be happy? Don't you want your child to be successful, not rich but personally successful however they grow to define it? and shouldn't you show that to them by example?
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Not reproduction: parenthood. Never mind how the kid got there; they are soon more important than everything you naïvely thought mattered. Not so much defined by that. Instead, motivated by entirely new impulses. Its not that you change your mind about success. Your mind changes, and that isn't a bad thing.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    If there is one thing that rammed that home it was sitting next to an incubator watching O2 levels and heartbeat of an early born infant. Re-alignment of priorities would be a very mild way to describe the feeling.
    - gregpilling 12y ago
      I agree. My son spent his first week in NICU, and 6 years later had a brain aneurism, and another brain surgery at 11 years. He is fine now. Work problems are pretty insignificant in comparison.
  - peteretep 12y ago
    > Your mind changes Definitely! > and that isn't a bad thing Not yet entirely convinced on that front.
  - klibertp 12y ago
    > Your mind changes I'm very suspicious about that. Every new experience has the chance of changing the way you think, it's natural. But for something to have that much of an impact it has to involve a lot of brain chemistry. And I don't trust in being intoxicated by hormones, I'd rather use other, safer drugs for this.
- sz4kerto 12y ago
  > But I don't like the thought that as soon as you have a child, you instantly have to be defined by that. I'm glad you brought this up. There's nothing that's forced upon you, you are not defined by this. It just happens so that most people change their priorities voluntarily and happily when they have a child. I personally continue pursuing professional success, of course. The difference is that if I become unsuccessful for any reason then the world won't collapse. So it just becomes much less important.
  - jkestner 12y ago
    Yeah, it wasn't transformative like a bolt of lightning. And I didn't instantly become one of those people who freaks out about all the parenting advice, things that might choke a baby, statistically insignificant ways of dying. I was easy-going before, still am. You may lose finite things like time, but not your identity. Parenthood only uncovers more of it.
- FullyFunctional 12y ago
  What I found is that I'm the same person, but having children changed my perspective. I'm more conscious of how I spend my time so I hopefully waste less and still have time for both my family and myself.
- kaiwen1 12y ago
  Until it happens to you, it's impossible to appreciate how sudden, profound and unexpected this change is (for must people). It's not a thing you plan or attempt. It's hard wired into your genes. Baby arrives. New behaviors, feelings, and priorities ensue. Whatever you were rushing around trying to do before is now less important. Your primary objective is to make sure that life over there in the crib is protected and provided for.
  - lotharbot 12y ago
    It changes most of your life in a very profound way. The people you always called "mom" and "dad" become "grandma" and "grandpa". You begin to think of your friends not just in terms of hanging out, but in terms of how they influence your child, or how their influence on you indirectly influences your child. You begin to look at the physical world with a different eye -- partly toward safety, partly just pure wonder. It completely transforms your perspective.
    - brc 12y ago
      Yes, the last thing I would have expected was re-evaluating my own friendships for that influence on influence. Not long after becoming a father I terminated a number of friendships quite abruptly. All of a sudden what I had previously thought of as 'fun guys' seemed like a toxic influence on me. The other aspect of parenthood is it brings your life design into sharp focus. Proximity to bars and restaurants and hip furnishings suddenly take a very distant back seat to access to quality neighbourhoods, schools and places to spend time with your kids. Old friends snigger that you don't go out anymore and figure your life must be so boring - sometimes they act sympathetically when you spend another Friday night in. They don't realise Friday nights in with a young family are great fun.
  - mikeg8 12y ago
    Makes sense. thank you for your reply.
  - mturmon 12y ago
    Here's a beautiful quote that expresses this profound change, and the sense that its consequences are to be accepted rather than resisted: "Let's say gravity suddenly shifted a little making everyone a little bit lighter. It would likely make the news circuit for a while and make movers and other professional lifters particularly happy. But after the scientists had explained again and again why it happened and all the potential story lines had been exhausted by newspapers and television pundits, religious zealots and idle conversationalists (“How about that gravity?”), we would accept it, perhaps with a individual joy all our own. Which is to say, even though a slight shift in gravity on Earth literally changes everything on our home planet, after awhile we’d adjust. Occasionally we might think back to the days before gravity changed with wonder and even nostalgia, but we’d know that everything being lighter is just better on one of those annoyingly and truistically difficult-to-communicate levels and continue with the practice of everyday life, with appropriate changes to this new state of lightness. Parenting for me is something like this." * This is by LA writer and critic Andrew Berardini, seen in http://www.broodwork.com/index.php?/projects/andrew-berardini/ http://www.broodwork.com/index.php?/projects/andrew-berardin....
- joshrotenberg 12y ago
  Father of two here. I don't think the point is that you can't/won't want to succeed, it's more that the result of your success is to further the success of your kids. And that doesn't just mean "provide for your family" in the old fashioned "dinner on the table" kind of way, it has more to do with being happy with yourself, and your kids pick up on that. If you are successful, in however you define it, your family is as well. And for me, more and more as my kids grow up and become themselves, seeing them succeed (and periodically fail) feels like real success to me, more so than any pat on the back I'd get from someone else.
- tlear 12y ago
  It changes you but it is very far from defining you. There is just a lot of joy from an unexpected place in your life all of a sudden. Just doing simple things like feed you kid some honey or biking around with them strapped to into a child seat of your bike suddenly becomes really enjoyable. But also when you go and do something that you love doing you want to share it, I brought my one and few month year old to Yosemite this winter and she was running around near Camp 4 while I bouldered. Just hours of wonder on her face it is pretty special. Then again there are some mental case parents, who lose all social connections, gain 100lb and can never be seen again by their friends. Just don't be that. I have former friends like that, it is some kind of North American phenomenon. For me it feel so nuts I really don't get how people become that.
MrZongle2 12y ago
Father of two here. It's true that having a child forces any responsible adult into revisiting their priorities, and some things that seemed important before parenthood suddenly aren't. I don't think it eliminates a desire to be successful: I think that it changes the parameters by which you determine success. And having a child throw up/mess on your nice clothes and shower the inside of your nice car with food and toys tends to make you settle for less in those departments, I admit. Prior to kids, I considered success to be pulling down a six-figure salary, having a nice big house and my own office at a high-profile, successful company. Now? Success is having a quiet office (size unimportant but preferably my own), enjoyable work and time to spend it with my kids before they are old enough to leave home. It is worth it, and anybody without kids who says otherwise knows not of which they speak. Parenthood is the difference between knowing the path and walking the path. If you're not a parent, you've just read the brochure.
- innguest 12y ago
  > It is worth it, and anybody without kids who says otherwise knows not of which they speak. That's some gross generalization. Any childless bachelor could know what the "path" is like by staying over with a friend that has a child and helping out for some time. On the other hand, parents that walk the path and later find out they're not cut out for it, have to suffer quietly, and can't voice their true opinions, because it's taboo; because no one can dare fathom someone might not like kids, and so many get pressured into having them without having what it takes.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - MrZongle2 12y ago
    "That's some gross generalization. Any childless bachelor could know what the "path" is like by staying over with a friend that has a child and helping out for some time." Uh, no. Having children isn't like having a dog or being a part-time nanny or live-in tutor. It is a multi-decade commitment to raising another human being from infancy to adulthood with all of the frustrations and joys -- yes, joys -- that come along with it. "On the other hand, parents that walk the path and later find out they're not cut out for it, have to suffer quietly, and can't voice their true opinions, because it's taboo..." Who are these parents, quietly suffering? I've seen a lot of crappy parents, who complain about their kids. I've seen a lot of deadbeat parents, who up and abandon their kids. And I've seen a ton of childless adults playing backseat parent. If you've got some studies and numbers to back up this apparent crisis of parenting victims, please share.
jkestner 12y ago
Well said. A part of you now wants to devote resources to someone else's success. Do you invest in your own future, or the wider possibilities with a whole new human? Once you have a child, it isn't even a struggle to balance those - she will hungrily take whatever you offer, and (hopefully) you'll enjoy it. The final big step in finding your place in the universe (spoiler: not the center).
innguest 12y ago
Philosophy is cheaper and a more interesting kind of fun.
petercooper 12y ago
it just does not matter that much anymore. I don't want to slam your well put, positive point, but this was not true for me at least. Getting married and having kids has motivated me to work hard and aim high - I could have (and did) sat around on my ass playing video games for the rest of my life. Different strokes for different folks, but I'm a far more driven person after gaining responsibilities than before.
- magic_beans 12y ago
  I think you misinterpreted OP's comment. He meant that having a child completely neutralizes the petty stress of the daily grind because you have something far more important.
  - russgray 12y ago
    For me, having kids amplified the daily grind. I hated leaving in the morning before they got up, and returning after they were in bed. Luckily this is a profession where at least some aspects of the grind are optional, and now I work remotely full-time.
magic_beans 12y ago
I can't tell if this makes me excited for parenthood or terrified of the demise it will bring to my own life.
- c0ur7n3y 12y ago
  Your life will have a demise regardless.
  - JoshTriplett 12y ago
    There are those in the world working on fixing that. Personally I'm hopeful that they will be successful eventually; the question is just how soon.
    - kzhahou 12y ago
      I think he meant "life is suffering."
wooyi 12y ago
If anything, I felt more pressure after kids to be successful. I had to prove to them that their father was not a mediocre person. I also need to show by example - that I did not want them to be mediocre and that they should strive to be the best at what they do.
- jkestner 12y ago
  Cool thing is, they take their metric for success from you. But you sound like you're measuring success by your role in the workplace. I'll bet they care a lot more about your role as a father.
  - wooyi 12y ago
    Yes. And for me, to be successful is to be happy with what I do for a living, and to have the freedom to pursue my dreams. Selfishly, I rather be a mediocre father and successful/happy with my career/lifelong work vs a great father and a mediocre career. We all pick our own paths. No regrets so far.

trequartista 12y ago

Learn when to back out - could be from an argument, job, partnership (personal or professional). This is very important for your sanity

toomuchtodo 12y ago
As someone close to me once said, "Choose the hill you want to die on carefully"

nine_k 12y ago

As a friend of mine formulated, 'be friendly, calm, confident, and firm'.

venomsnake 12y ago

Ask her out ...

mtbcoder 12y ago

1) Spend more time with your family before it's too late. Call your mother, father and siblings more often. 2) Save, save and save more. Spend your money on things that matter (such as visiting your family more). I worry about the future of labor in the US.

Rapzid 12y ago
I can't emphasize number 2 enough. But I'll try: SAVE, SAVE, SAVE, SAVE, SAVE. Seriously, if you don't want to have to be working for the rest of your life it's time to start saving now. Maximize earnings. Maximize savings. I just realized at 31 how much savings opportunity I wasted over the past 7 years... Actually, I don't even want to calculate it up. I'm focused on the future. Save! And sleep more.

23david 12y ago

On health: Even though you're young, try and still go to the doctor every once in a while for checkups. But even if you don't like going to doctors, don't just ignore pain in your body. For example, ignoring a sore wrist or back, or ignoring digestive and sleep issues can easily lead to life-long disabilities. It's also common for people to experience mental health issues (in a way that starts to impact relationships and work performance) for the first time in their early 30s... It's a fairly common event, but it's generally really scary for everyone involved. Getting stable with medication and then also working with a trained therapist can help you pull through this.

putzdown 12y ago

Your twenties are the age of proving yourself. But this is a self-defeating goal: a person worthy of the respect and success you yearn for doesn't need them as badly as you do. Your thirties expand and narrow your world: expansion into parenting (for many) and to richer relationships, if you can survive them, with spouses. But now you know your limits, and the sky is no longer it. There's a contraction of options, but the few options you have grow deeper. By forty you know you have nothing to prove or, contrariwise, you've proven just how limited you are. You've made your bed and you're lying in it. For many this is a crisis and they struggle to break free, but there's no escaping it: you're older. You feel your own age in your mind and body (knees? back? eyes?) truly for the first time. But once you get over the shock, you realize that you're still young enough. You also realize, if you've stayed at the hard work of marriage and parenting and building skills and opportunities for a career, that you've got a lot to be confident about. You're humbler, but more powerful and capable, than ever. I haven't reached 50 yet so I have to stop there.

rimantas 12y ago
You should replace "Your" by "My".
- kpennell 12y ago
  The original article doesn't. Neither do most of the comments.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

japhyr 12y ago

Work towards being satisfied, rather than being happy. Happiness is fleeting; satisfaction is lasting. We all need to play and just be happy - I'm not arguing against that. But longer term, I've often felt we're better off figuring out what makes us satisfied at the end of each day. When I'm on my deathbed, I want to be satisfied with the way I spent my life. I know that my "deathbed" could come today, or it could come 50+ years from now. That's a wild range.

adam12 12y ago

Straining on the toilet too hard can be bad for your heart. Seriously.

Torgo 12y ago

If you are depressed, do everything in your power to find the reason and address it, or you will have wasted your entire youth.

mortality 12y ago

34yo here. Experience something horrible. I grew up in a ridiculously perfect fantasyland. My parents, who have an ideal marriage, told me I was the best at everything, encouraged every dream I had, paid for college and insulated me from all of life's difficulties re: money, stress, etc. To make matters worse, I excelled right along with the praise -- made good grades, got into a top-10 college, started a company after college which was lifestyle-profitable for 7 years. (It could have been a major score if I'd executed better, but that's beside the point.) When my company started to decline post-2008, I had to go get a job. I excelled at it, but got crossways with my boss for entirely personal reasons and was fired. This back-to-back double-whammy was by far the worst experience of my life. I'd never experienced failure or rejection and my psyche/ego simply didn't know how to handle it. I sunk into a depression for 3 years. It's not hyperbole to say I almost didn't survive it. But I'm on the other side of it now. The darkness is receding. I know this because I know the double-whammy was entirely necessary for me. The spoiled brat is gone. I empathize with others. I care about the journey people have taken to the point where I meet them. None of that mattered before. It was all me, me, me, the worldbeater. Yeah I'm in my mid 30s now and the past 5 years were tough. But I'm glad I've already spanned the chasm now than in my mid-50s. Now I'm better prepared for things to come. One slightly separate piece: I used to have massive entrepreneurial angst. I was a person who looked at those who have "made" it and got angry. Angry at lack of co-founders. Angry that my school's alumni network doesn't have the best SV connections. Angry at perceived ageism in tech circles... But now I know that all advantages others might have on you -- better schooling, younger, lucky career breaks, etc -- can be trumped by one thing: traction. It doesn't matter if you're white, black, purple, one-armed, blind, gay or republican -- If you have something worth investing in, you can find investors. Period.

JoshTriplett 12y ago
> My parents, who have an ideal marriage, told me I was the best at everything, encouraged every dream I had, paid for college and insulated me from all of life's difficulties re: money, stress, etc. Related to this: if you have kids yourself, or you're in a position of providing guidance for kids, keep providing a safe and consistent environment for them yourself, but teach them that the world is not fair, that adults are not always right and not always consistent, that they themselves are not always the smartest person in the room (nor should they always want to be), and that other people care about themselves much more than them. Or, in short, don't just teach them that the world is awesome (though it can be); teach them how to get what they want out of a world that's not out to hand it to them.

JoshTriplett 12y ago

Related to #2 and #3: don't fall into the trap of believing that it's supposed to take a long time to do something important. Work expands to fill the time alotted. If you get it in your head that the Great Work you're trying to do will take you some number of years, it will, or it will take even longer, if you finish at all. Commit to yourself now that you won't let work expand to fill the time alotted. Don't accept that from yourself, and don't accept that from others. (Within reason; everything can't get done overnight, but a "multi-year research project" often doesn't really need many person-years worth of effort, it just turns out that way because people let it.)

KineticLensman 12y ago

53 year old here. When you are making really long term plans, bear in mind that your fitness will decline. Optimise out things that will make your back ache.

stevenmays 12y ago

I wrote a blog post about this very recently: http://stevenmays.org/turning-30/ http://stevenmays.org/turning-30/

marincounty 12y ago

This will sound narcisstic, and calculating, but here goes; Make friends with people younger than you. I never felt comfortable with people from my generation. I seemed to become friends with people older than myself. I didn't do it on a conscious level, but it happened. I would buy things like 8 person rafts, double kayaks, huge tents. Everything I planned for had another close person/girlfriend in mind. They all passed away. As to money, save that money you made in your 20-30's. For some reason(I think testosterone) most of the people I knew in life made the big money in their 20-30's. These were people without fancy degrees--four year degree at best. Oh yea, you can be the best at a lot of things, and feel like you are on top of the world. You can feel like you can accomplish anything. All that can change overnight with mental illness. I had a slight nervous breakdown(not psychotic), and I went from being one of the better students in graduate school--to someone who couldn't drive to the school a week later. Life has been a struggle since. I tried therapy and it just didn't help. Prescription drugs did alleviate some of the missery, but I am now addicted to two drugs going on twenty years. There was no history of mental illness in my family. I didn't even feel stressed when I brokedown. (I did have a fear of death. I had typical worries of a twenty something year old.) I just blew a gasket. Yes, after dealing with psychiatrists who really didn't have any answers--that's what I feel what happened. I know it's rare. None of my classmates from high school/college experienced anything close to my symptomology. It did get better with time though. I usually don't tell anyone because I know it's rare. I do have a innate understanding of homelessness because of my condition though, and cringe when I hear, "You can do anything! It just takes proper planning!". Sometimes your brain just goes haywire.

ddingus 12y ago
And older. I have a wide array of friends, and what I've found is some of them become mentors, and we become mentors and it can all add up to this nice resonance where we give and receive energy, perspective, help, opportunity.

jacquesm 12y ago

- being smart and being wise aren't the same thing - not everything in the world can be expressed as an equation - conserve your body as if your life depends on it, it does - there is a story behind everybody

kamaal 12y ago

Start saving and investing as early as you can. If you haven't, do it on a war footing. Get rid of debt. The more you invest, the more you are likely to benefit over time. In fact you may be surprised more than anything else out there. In many cases, even more than careers, job, raises and promotions- investments play a very critical role in how well you are going to do financially.

peteretep 12y ago
> Start saving and investing as early as you can. If you > haven't, do it on a war footing. Get rid of debt. Yeah, maybe. My net positive worth went red about age 18, and stayed that way (sometimes drastically) until I was about 30, when I finally clawed my way back out of the debt hole. The decisions I made, the things I learned, the rash choices I made, decisions to quit jobs and do something exciting when I couldn't afford it, randomly moving to another country without any kind of security net, dumb startups that I didn't have the savings to bootstrap properly, holidays I took that I couldn't afford, needing to execute on things because without it I wouldn't eat, starting (and then finishing) an expensive degree I couldn't afford, the partying I did... I wouldn't change it for a thing. If I die tomorrow, I will have lived. Those experiences are what have put me in the very solid earning position I'm in now. I save nearly 70% of what I earn, I've been out of debt and had solid savings for a while, and I have a great standard of living. Leaving it all to Lady Luck and hoping that it works out OK in the end is obviously a risky strategy, but the idea that your 20s should be about scrimping and saving rather than getting out there and screwing stuff up is equally risky.
- tonyedgecombe 12y ago
  Think how much more you could have done if you didn't have to pay all that debt interest.
  - peteretep 12y ago
    The only way I could have done more would have been a second body and a time machine.

trustfundbaby 12y ago

your 20's are when you discover your strengths ... your 30's are when you come to terms with your weaknesses ...

soidjmwiebsfew 12y ago

This advice is clearly not for everyone but it has been working for me for many years: Do your best not to off yourself until your parents are dead. Avoid romantic relationships and avoid inflicting your accursed genes on another generation. Do not make promises that you cannot keep. Seek out and savor close friends. Know yourself and treat yourself with kindness. Reflect on your astonishing fortune to have been born in a time and place where someone like you has a shot at enjoying life. Some people will attempt to persuade you that living in agony is virtuous. It is not. Tell them white lies.

randomsearch 12y ago

Meta-lesson: if you want to learn more wisdom, experiences are key. Get a diversity of experiences, do things that are outside your comfort zone and you will collect wisdom. Don't be scared to take detours in life. Travel, socialise with unusual people, try your hand at everything. Never stop learning. 1. Good friends are more valuable than cool friends. Learn who to trust and who's a flake. Remain friends with the flakes, but don't rely on them. 2. Don't stay where you're unhappy. Give it some time, then move on. Try something else. 3. Focus, focus, focus when you're doing one thing. Other times, branch out. 4. When you're young you are time rich and cash poor; when you're old you are cash rich and time poor. Don't put things off until you're older - travelling when retired will not inform your life. 5. The happiest people have good work-life balance. This may not go down well on HN, but having seen people around the world living different lives, this is a general observation. A relative was a counsellor, and he told me "No-one [at the end of their life] ever wishes they'd spent more time at the office." Perhaps working long hours for a while with a view to achieving this balance later is OK. 6. Forget the money. https://vimeo.com/63961985 https://vimeo.com/63961985 7. Take holidays. Regularly. Force yourself to. 8. The secret to stamina is sleep. 9. Mix with people of all demographics, or you will end up with a narrow view of life. 10. If you've thought about doing something for a long time, you should probably do it. 11. If you're having a conversation with someone about breaking up with your partner, then it is time to break up, or at least, take a break and see how it feels - don't waste your time and your partner's time procrastinating. 12. In relationships, you should always make extra effort, even when you've already made extra effort. Relationships take a lot of work, long-term. Surprise your partner. 13. Really listen to people. It's such a hard skill to develop. Start today. 14. Realise how lucky you are to wake up with hot water, heating, and nice food. Many people in the world don't have these luxuries. Living on no money when travelling is a good way to learn this. 15. Travel. But don't party the whole time. Often travelling is best done mid-late 20s when you've done the partying thing. Stay with local people. Don't plan too much. Get into the countryside. 16. If you're writing an email and it feels uncomfortable, you should probably not send it. Or at least wait for the morning :-). 17. Sometimes, deciding to do nothing is a decision in itself. Solutions can present themselves. 18. Have a huge party every birthday. Don't fight ageing, embrace it and celebrate being alive :-). 19. Don't criticise things without providing an alternative. If you feel angry in an argument, you're probably wrong. 20. Don't do a PhD straight after you graduate. 21. When in love in a relationship, throw yourself into it. Don't have regrets. Always tell people how you feel. It may be a car-crash at the time, but you'll learn from it and feel better about it your whole life. 22. At the end of your life, they're going to put you in a box in a hole in the ground, and that's it. Every moment of life is precious. When you're on your deathbed, even the idea of one more normal day at work will look unimaginably brilliant. Develop that feeling now. 23. Meditate. Unlearn what you have learned. 24. Whenever you think something nice about a person, say it. There's enough negativity in the world. Love your friends and tell them you love them. 25. Read books. Lots and lots of books. Read "East of Eden" by Steinbeck. You'll see why. 26. In love, in work, in life, never ever settle. It is better to be alone than to marry a person you don't truly love. 27. When giving people advice, they usually only want you to confirm their decision. Listen and talk things over. And even if you do give them advice, they'll just ignore and do what they want in the long-term. 28. Old(er) people are a great source of wisdom, but you won't take their advice seriously until you've experienced it yourself.

mesozoic 12y ago

Don't try to get all of your fulfillment from work. You will have a bad time.