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Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots
- vinay427 11y ago"the police said some firefighters were reportedly having cinder blocks heaved at them as they responded to emergencies." That's pathetic.
- feld 11y agoand their fire hoses vandalized, apparently
- chippy 11y agoyep, they were slashed with knives live on CNN news.
- Zigurd 11y agoSometimes vandalism is faked, created in order to generate propaganda images: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/why-were-police-cruisers-left-to-burn-at-g20-summit/article572789/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/why-were-police-...
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- ceejayoz 11y agoAnd sometimes it's deemed "sports fans taking to the streets". http://mic.com/articles/116680/11-stunning-images-highlight-the-double-standard-of-reactions-to-riots-like-baltimore http://mic.com/articles/116680/11-stunning-images-highlight-...
- tectec 11y agoThat list is misleading. One of the items is the Vancouver hockey riot in 2011. It was definitely called a riot at the time, and two years later they were still prosecuting the offenders. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/vpd-recommends-25-new-charges-over-vancouver-stanley-cup-riots/article13368218/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/vpd-rec...
- ceejayoz 11y agoThe list itself states ESPN called that one a riot. Part of the double standard is that even when it gets called a riot, we don't get the same hand-wringing about "where were the fathers", dog-whistle terms like "urban thugs", etc.
- soylentcola 11y agoJumping on your comment since it seems most relevant, but the topic of propaganda is one that has mostly gone unmentioned. Over the past few days, there has been a massive uptick in the use of social media to spread propaganda and incite further unrest. The most striking examples I've seen are the (seemingly) organized campaign on Twitter called #baltimorelootcrew. This tag is allegedly being used by looters to post images of people they assaulted and of items they stole. If you look at the accounts of the posters, their tweet histories often go back a few days with some really nasty racist stereotypes that would have probably fallen under Poe's Law if not for the fact that earlier Twitter history is loaded with nothing but "gamergate" and other social-justice-trolling stuff. So far it would seem that quite a few of these troll accounts are trying to fan the fire of racial tension. Then there is the /r/baltimore subreddit. Non-residents from racist and troll subs have piled in and begun posting false "eyewitness" accounts under fake names as well as downvote brigading anyone who is trying to set the record straight (from right there on the ground). While the world is watching the baltimore subreddit, the most upvoted info is often completely fabricated to piss people off. And then yesterday, there was the reddit live blog which was viewed by at least 10k people at any given time. A few folks who claimed to be transcribing the police scanner logs were in actuality posting false reports of incidents all over the city (which were not actually happening). At one point I messaged the account that was running it and somehow got replies from multiple accounts. When I mentioned that a lot of the info being posted was erroneous, the main poster replied "it's only fake until it's real". This was also where they kept spamming the alleged flyers advertising more planned riots later in the day. As far as I can tell, these flyers did not originate in the community but from online trolls. People all over town and around the nation are following Twitter, Reddit, and other social sites but so much of the information is either malicious or part of the dangerous rumor mill that makes claims without verification and only serves to agitate people in a tense situation.
- jamesfe 11y agoMore than pathetic, it proves that a subset of the protestors aren't really sympathetic to the cause - because this does nothing to solve racial tension, if anything, it exacerbates.
- akilism 11y agothe police say a lot of things though don't they.
- MagicWishMonkey 11y agoAnd the cops helped start the riots by throwing rocks at protestors. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/27/police-throw-rocks-baltimore_n_7156614.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/27/police-throw-rocks-...
- ianhawes 11y agoLet me help you out here. These were not protestors. These were rioters. HuffPo's coverage of the riots has been abhorrent at best. The gathering of people in the video consisted of teenagers organizing after school yesterday to cause mayhem and "create a purge".
- crusso 11y agoThat's a bit of a leap to say that the cops helped start the riots because there are a couple of incidents of cops throwing something. From the video on the link you referenced, it looked like the cops were in full retreat from a wild crowd throwing objects. One of the cops half-heartedly tossed something back... inappropriate response on his part, but hardly evidence that he was the instigator in anything.
- Lancey 11y agoPolice do a bad thing: "You can't blame all cops for a few bad apples in isolated incidents." Protesters do a bad thing: "Pathetic rioters! Ungrateful youths! Sit down and do as you're told!"
- vinay427 11y agoNo one's saying that. My comment simply mentioned that cinder blocks were apparently being thrown at firefighters by some protesters. I fully support peaceful protests as they are an effective way to enact change, but violent acts really only harm innocents and turn public support away.
- Lancey 11y agoI meant that as a response to crusso. When protesters throw things, it's a blight on all protesters, but when cops throw things, it's just an incident.
- kisstheblade 11y agoWell in sweden (which is to supposed to be a peaceful nation) there are city districts where the police can't go because the "natives" try to kill them. Unsurprisingly these places are full of immigrants. You can pooh-pooh over how they have lousy conditions and are poor and riot because of that, but the fact is that they get everything they need from the state (food, shelter, spending money, schooling, healthcare), and also there has always been poor people in sweden and they haven't had problems with eg. cops or looting and rioting. So it's probably some kind of cultural thing for people from some places.
- somedangedname 11y agoYou are referring to the report about Malmö & co.? I'm having a hard time finding an english-language analysis which isn't frothing-at-the-mouth xenophobia. If you know of one I would very much like to read it.
- petercooper 11y agoFWIW, there are numerous areas in the UK infamous for having firefighters and even medics get attacked in the street - it predominantly seems to be from poor indigenous British kids and teenagers though, certainly not immigrants.
- rayiner 11y agoMy wife and I live in Baltimore, in Mt. Vernon. We were having dinner the other night in Bolton Hill (a quiet residential area), and four guys ran by the restaurant and tried to throw a chair through the window (chairs turned out to be heavier than they thought). People vandalized the Rite-Aid a few blocks from our apartment, and set fire to a building we could see out our window. Being from Bangladesh I'm not worried (what's happening in Baltimore happens in Dhaka every other month). But it's a reminder of how fragile the social order is and how close we always are to its collapse.
- madez 11y agoWhy do many countries with cold climate didn't have these issues while many countries with hot climate tend to do? Why do countries which didn't have unsafe streets now do after immigration?
- owenjones 11y agoHmm, today I learned America has never had a riot before. Although I seem to distinctly remember my city of Philadelphia rioting pretty good after the Philadelphia Phillies won the World Series...
- madez 11y agoYour sarcasm is misplaced. In fact, America has seen a lot of protests and riots, for example in Brazil and Mexico.
- emodendroket 11y agoOr in, say, New Hampshire, like a year ago.
- cafard 11y agoProbably because there aren't enough people in Greenland to get a good riot going. Shakespeare wrote about riots in England--some of them, to be sure, targeted against Germans. Scotland has had its riots, Berlin has had some. I could mention the Boston Tea Party, but let's face it, those Yankees were immigrants.
- leesalminen 11y agoDid I see the Mayor of Baltimore at a press conference saying they "gave room for people that wanted to destroy"?
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y agoI assume the context was talking about the police department hiring practices.
- runako 11y agoI think the context was in order to give space for nonviolent protest, they created a space where some people would act in unproductive/violent ways. My take was it was meant in a similar spirit as our free speech protections; allowing wide berths for free speech leads to a lot of destructive speech. Preventing nonviolent protests requires militarization a la Ferguson.
- leesalminen 11y agoWhile I agree in sprit, I don't think that a quote like that should be spoken at a press conference, chopped, twisted and hashed by the media and then interpreted by already irrational protestors. It's encouraging violence and destruction of others property.
- runako 11y agoThat's what we do in America. Look at how we chop, twist, and hash the Constitution in public debate. It really doesn't matter how well-crafted the statement; we'll misinterpret because we're Americans and that's what we do.
- stefantalpalaru 11y agoIt's a simple strategy for reminding people that the law enforcement is the lesser evil in the face of chaos and destruction. And it works every time.
- akilism 11y agoThis is what happens when you have an above the law police force that preys on entire neighborhoods that feel like they have been cast aside.
- th0waway 11y agoThis is what happens when you have populations that think they are above the law, and that prey on other citizens that aren't like them (FTFY)
- akilism 11y agoyou can't even stand behind your own comments.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- mc32 11y agoHe or she may not feel like exposing their identity but what they say is not that far off. Most of the violence is not by the local people who will be directly impacted by the violence in the neighborhoods. It's by people who found a nice excuse to vent whatever frustration they have violently and anonymously. These acts don't further justice -the same way mistreating arrestees does not further justice. They coopt the frustration of the community and corrupt it and moreover set the community back in terms of forward development. I think the problem is more your interpretation with what they are saying than what the words they said. Also, who are the people above the law, the rioters, the bad police, its not clear, but we know both contribute to destruction.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jonlucc 11y agoThere's an article in the Atlantic[1] that explains that there have been a good deal of civil cases settled for police brutality and racism, but none of the perpetrators have been charged. It seems to me that there is no reason for a person to die in custody, but right now, the people in charge of Baltimore don't have an explanation of how Freddy Gray died. [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/nonviolence-as-compliance/391640/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/nonviole...
- Lancey 11y agoIt's unfortunate that it had to come to this, but I believe the rioters were justified in their actions. If the police departments in the United States do not account for their actions, or worse, defend officers that have committed acts that show an indiscriminate disregard for the well being of those they're sworn to protect, they should be prepared to face violent resistance from the people.
- blueatlas 11y agoJustified burning down a brand new senior community center and knocking out a cop with a brick to the head. Really?
- Lancey 11y agoWere the police justified when they beat an unarmed suspect and denied him medical attention that would have saved his life? Were they justified when they refused to bring those responsible to justice?
- engi_nerd 11y agoAh, I see you are advocating a new system where injustices are answered with further injustices.
- MagicWishMonkey 11y agoA new system? This is how society has been since time immemorial. It is the basis of our capital punishment system. People only point it out as being some sort of new phenomenon when minorities are the ones lashing out.
- engi_nerd 11y agoI don't intend to argue, here, in favor of the capital punishment system. What does offend me is your assertion that what I said had ANYTHING to do with race.
- fixxer 11y agoAnother great opportunity for effective protest lost.
- akilism 11y agoPeople have been protesting peacefully in Baltimore all last week with 0 answers from the police or elected officials. No media was talking about it, there was no Freddie Gray thread on hackernews, but now the whole world is talking about it.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoHm except for HN, which has 3 comments about Valve's decision to change their mod rates, for every one about Baltimore.
- k-mcgrady 11y agoSeveral reasons: 1. This is a community primarily for technology posts. Occasionally news makes it here but it has to be a pretty big story. 2. Although this is a relatively big story it's a US centric story when HN is a global community. Personally I've seen so many of these horrible police brutality stories from the US in the last year that they've lost my attention. I saw the Twitter hash tag a few days ago, saw it was a police brutality thing, and didn't even bother looking further. It's almost become accepted fact that police in the US are militarised, heavy handed, and criminal, and no matter what the reaction there or around the world is nobody seems to have the ability to (or want to) change things.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoI see. Please note that characterization of the police is an exaggeration of the media. Similarly, the USA consists of cowboys and Indians.
- blfr 11y agoThere is a specific guideline against mainstream politics and crime stories on HN.
- SFjulie1 11y agoNorthen America cities are really not geometrically in favour of law enforcement. L1 geometry + size of blocks gives an unfair advantage to the rioters. Which means law enforcement have to resort to excessive violence to squash demonstration, and the government to use excessive measures to protect social peace (such as spying their own citizens). Designing cities for cars and not the "humans beings" may have been a cost.
- k-mcgrady 11y agoAren't North American cities generally grid based? wouldn't this make it easy for police to for lines, block off several streets, and contain rioters within a block or two?
- Lancey 11y agoSee New York where protesters could easily avoid cops by creating multiple incidents at once and dispersing in different directions when police resistance arrives. It takes too long for an organized group to move through the city and that can be used to spread police thin.
- k-mcgrady 11y agoThat's more a problem with the size of the cities that the layout though.
- TheCoelacanth 11y agoI dislike the design of American cities as much as the next guy, but this seems like a huge stretch.
- danso 11y agoFWIW, David Simon's response: http://davidsimon.com/baltimore/ http://davidsimon.com/baltimore/ > Yes, there is a lot to be argued, debated, addressed. And this moment, as inevitable as it has sometimes seemed, can still, in the end, prove transformational, if not redemptive for our city. Changes are necessary and voices need to be heard. All of that is true and all of that is still possible, despite what is now loose in the streets. > But now — in this moment — the anger and the selfishness and the brutality of those claiming the right to violence in Freddie Gray’s name needs to cease. There was real power and potential in the peaceful protests that spoke in Mr. Gray’s name initially, and there was real unity at his homegoing today. But this, now, in the streets, is an affront to that man’s memory and a dimunition of the absolute moral lesson that underlies his unnecessary death. > If you can’t seek redress and demand reform without a brick in your hand, you risk losing this moment for all of us in Baltimore. Turn around. Go home. Please.
- maxerickson 11y agoHis various replies to comments are also worth reading.
- atwebb 11y agoSo this just got dropped from the front page, any idea why? It was #4 then on refresh it was gone.
- chippy 11y agoFlag killed probably because of flamewars.
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoMy understanding is that comments outnumbering votes reuslts in a heavy penalty.
- dang 11y agoIt dropped in rank because users flagged it.
- emodendroket 11y agoWell, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that seemingly half the comments here look like they could have been posted on Stormfront, but it's still disappointing.