4 ms·

Coin-operated Borgocrat goes to Google, acquires whole new set of opinions

175 points by javery 17y ago

wgj 17y ago
The point should be that every platform company needs great developer evangelism, and a great developer evangelist should certainly be serving the developer community as much as they serve the company that writes their check. This is why the current situation is ultimately a win for Google and a loss for Microsoft. Fake Steve misses the point on this one, which is a surprise considering how amazingly great Apple is doing with developer evangelism on the iPhone. No wonder he wouldn't want Don Dodge. What would he do with someone like that?
- chris100 17y ago
  FSJ has a point here. The blind endorsment of Google technology within a week of switching jobs is fishy. Plain and simple.
  - wgj 17y ago
    I understand the point, but given Apple's track record with developer relations recently I find it ironic that FSJ found this topic to riff on.
    - cruise02 17y ago
      You do also understand that Fake Steve Jobs doesn't really work at Apple, right?
      - wgj 17y ago
        Yes, I understand it's satire or at least something similar. I'm not a regular reader, and maybe I'm missing some subtext. In this case it's too subtle for me because there's this huge glass house called iPhone Developer Relations. Fake Steve should at least boast about how well they nailed it. That would be funny.
  - colbyolson 17y ago
    As a tech evangelist, you could say he's just doing his job very well. (sarcasm.)
    - potatolicious 17y ago
      The fact that we're having this discussion means he probably failed. The evangelist needs to make with the awesome about products without raising suspicion.
ewanmcteagle 17y ago
I think this deserved pointing out. I'm not sure where this Don Dodge is great stuff comes from or what it's based on but these few posts about him do make him seem coin-operated. The best developer evangelists are able to be sincere, thoughtful and helpful. Without those qualities it's a job that tends to make you into a shill.
- colbyolson 17y ago
  I've never really known who this guy was, only that he was laid-off from MS and was hired immediately from Google. I checked his blog and his most recent post was glorifying Google and their products as things far superior to Microsoft's. In a matter of hours or days? Questionable. Unless he's resentful, but even still, be honest.
- endtime 17y ago
  Agreed on all counts. Never heard of him until the news he was fired from MS, read his goodbye blog post that was pretty Microsoft-friendly, and threw up in my mouth a little when I saw this new one. I'm sure Don's done some good work, but based on the exposure I have to him (the two aforementioned blog posts) I find it hard to respect the guy.
  - jey 17y ago
    I agree that it looks pretty bad, but for the sake of playing Devil's, er, Don's Advocate: maybe he was feeling down from being unexpectedly let go from MSFT, and is now having a rebound where everything about his new job looks extra rosy? Just saying there's a human/personal element at play here too.
    - Keyframe 17y ago
      You might be right, but he could've handled this with more professionalism.
    - endtime 17y ago
      I can understand feeling down after being fired. I can't understand magically having opinions opposite to those you held when employed by your new employer's competitor. The flippant and unprofessional tone just exacerbates the problem.
anApple 17y ago
I guess he never really had to work with Office or Outlook, or otherwise he would have known their advantages. Firing him was just a logical consequence, since he didn't seem to do an awful lot of work.
ShabbyDoo 17y ago
I don't see much in the way of inconsistencies. In _2006_, Don notes: "Google knows that on a feature comparison basis there is no contest. Microsoft Office wins." And, in the SAME blog posting also says: "Feature comparisons aside, I think the real story is free online collaboration, which is the next battlefield." Now that he's left MSFT, he says: "I can’t think of a single feature missing from what I need every day. There may be some edge cases, but I haven’t bumped into any yet." I haven't used Google Docs much, but haven't they improved significantly in the past three years? Furthermore, he noted while at MSFT that the killer feature is collaboration, not the number of unique word count statistics. I see little in the way of inconsistency here. Doesn't Ballmer change his arguments at least twice a year when it comes to dissing competitive offerings?
- Periodic 17y ago
  Many of those quotes are 2-3 years old. Google has been consistently improving their web offerings and the speed of web apps has been getting better and better. I have changed my opinion of products and companies over a the span of years many times. I think we should agree that he can too.
  - ShabbyDoo 17y ago
    Perhaps I wasn't sufficiently clear...I agree with you entirely. And, I don't see much evidence that he's actually changed his opinion much over time.
- spatulon 17y ago
  Technically, you're right. But in both cases he's carefully choosing his words to make his employer's product sound better. It's patronising because it implies: * that I'm not capable of noticing any drawbacks of the product, which he conveniently didn't mention, and * that I would ever give any serious consideration to a spokesman's supposed opinions of his own company's product. I would have much more respect for somebody who came out and praised the competition and acknowledged what they got right instead of what they got wrong. It would show much more confidence in his/her own product.
jfager 17y ago
Clicking through to the cited posts: 1. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/12/options_on_goog.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/12/optio... - Most of this post is praising Google for their TSO program. Microsoft is mentioned almost as an afterthought, to show that they also have good employee benefits (not exactly a secret). 2. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2005/11/google_data_cen.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2005/11/googl... - This was written in 2005, and is pretty much exactly in line with the predominant sentiment of that time. It's hard to make the case even today that Google has yet really attacked MS directly (no desktop OS, a much lighter office suite, etc). 3. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/10/office_20_free_.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/10/offic... - Again, mostly in praise of Google, talking specifically about how online office suites are a potentially disruptive technology that MS is scrambling to get a slice of like everyone else. And, feature-for-feature, um, of course MS Office wins. But if you don't care about feature count, so what? 4. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/12/google-vs-micro.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/12/googl... - He specifically says Google is to today's MS as Toyota was to Ford or MS was to IBM 30 years ago. The whimper about MS having smart folks who have played disruptor themselves doesn't exactly equate to "Google won't disrupt MS". 5. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/02/google_apps_tak.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/02/googl... - Alright, Fake Steve has this one pretty spot on. 6. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/05/windows_live_ho.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/05/windo... - It's a product blurb, followed by the drooling endorsement of pointing out that people usually don't completely abandon their old email addresses even if they move on to something else.
- sgk284 17y ago
  It's worth noting that every single quote is from 2005, 2006 or 2007. A lot has changed in the past 2 to 4 years.
  - slig 17y ago
    > Gmail is a reasonable alternative to Hotmail or Yahoo Mail, but it doesn't compare to Microsoft Outlook Gmail is pretty much the same, sans themes and offline access.
padmanabhan01 17y ago
'Even Microsoft’s online version of Outlook called Outlook Web Access is far better than Gmail' Even according to the standards of marketers/evengelists, this is so overboard.
- youngian 17y ago
  Wow, yeah. No one who actually uses OWA on a regular basis could say that with a straight face. Gmail was far superior, right from launch (or at least as close to launch as I got an invite).
- albemuth 17y ago
  Laughable is an understatement, OWA is so unbelievably bad...
- kqr2 17y ago
  I am one of the unfortunate people that have to use Outlook Web Access at work. Unless you use IE, you lose a lot of features. Since I use firefox, I find that even Hotmail is better than OWA.
  - aufreak 17y ago
    You can actually use your gmail account to check your exchange accounts. If your work place allows that, go right ahead! I've been accessing my univ exchange account via gmail and never regretted it.
ramanujan 17y ago
I believe Scoble at least waited a few weeks to make his conversions seem organic. I think this would have less of a bad taste if we thought of these guys as being particularly conniving salespeople rather than "evangelists". After Goog prevented Jon Skeet from getting his MS MVP award, this post might also have been internall encouuraged by Google. Nothing would demoralize MS more than seeing its ex-girlfriend sleeping with its hated rival (even if they initiated the breakup).
mattmaroon 17y ago
FSJ is the tech industry's court jester.
dpapathanasiou 17y ago
"I sent a copy of this to Katie with a note asking how we missed out on this guy, because he's exactly the kind of coin-operated true believer we need around here." LOL
c00p3r 17y ago
The point is to get well paid for publishing such blah-blah-blah. And he did.

175 points by javery 17y ago

wgj 17y ago

The point should be that every platform company needs great developer evangelism, and a great developer evangelist should certainly be serving the developer community as much as they serve the company that writes their check. This is why the current situation is ultimately a win for Google and a loss for Microsoft. Fake Steve misses the point on this one, which is a surprise considering how amazingly great Apple is doing with developer evangelism on the iPhone. No wonder he wouldn't want Don Dodge. What would he do with someone like that?

chris100 17y ago
FSJ has a point here. The blind endorsment of Google technology within a week of switching jobs is fishy. Plain and simple.
- wgj 17y ago
  I understand the point, but given Apple's track record with developer relations recently I find it ironic that FSJ found this topic to riff on.
  - cruise02 17y ago
    You do also understand that Fake Steve Jobs doesn't really work at Apple, right?
    - wgj 17y ago
      Yes, I understand it's satire or at least something similar. I'm not a regular reader, and maybe I'm missing some subtext. In this case it's too subtle for me because there's this huge glass house called iPhone Developer Relations. Fake Steve should at least boast about how well they nailed it. That would be funny.
- colbyolson 17y ago
  As a tech evangelist, you could say he's just doing his job very well. (sarcasm.)
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    The fact that we're having this discussion means he probably failed. The evangelist needs to make with the awesome about products without raising suspicion.

ewanmcteagle 17y ago

I think this deserved pointing out. I'm not sure where this Don Dodge is great stuff comes from or what it's based on but these few posts about him do make him seem coin-operated. The best developer evangelists are able to be sincere, thoughtful and helpful. Without those qualities it's a job that tends to make you into a shill.

colbyolson 17y ago
I've never really known who this guy was, only that he was laid-off from MS and was hired immediately from Google. I checked his blog and his most recent post was glorifying Google and their products as things far superior to Microsoft's. In a matter of hours or days? Questionable. Unless he's resentful, but even still, be honest.
endtime 17y ago
Agreed on all counts. Never heard of him until the news he was fired from MS, read his goodbye blog post that was pretty Microsoft-friendly, and threw up in my mouth a little when I saw this new one. I'm sure Don's done some good work, but based on the exposure I have to him (the two aforementioned blog posts) I find it hard to respect the guy.
- jey 17y ago
  I agree that it looks pretty bad, but for the sake of playing Devil's, er, Don's Advocate: maybe he was feeling down from being unexpectedly let go from MSFT, and is now having a rebound where everything about his new job looks extra rosy? Just saying there's a human/personal element at play here too.
  - Keyframe 17y ago
    You might be right, but he could've handled this with more professionalism.
  - endtime 17y ago
    I can understand feeling down after being fired. I can't understand magically having opinions opposite to those you held when employed by your new employer's competitor. The flippant and unprofessional tone just exacerbates the problem.

anApple 17y ago

I guess he never really had to work with Office or Outlook, or otherwise he would have known their advantages. Firing him was just a logical consequence, since he didn't seem to do an awful lot of work.

ShabbyDoo 17y ago

I don't see much in the way of inconsistencies. In _2006_, Don notes: "Google knows that on a feature comparison basis there is no contest. Microsoft Office wins." And, in the SAME blog posting also says: "Feature comparisons aside, I think the real story is free online collaboration, which is the next battlefield." Now that he's left MSFT, he says: "I can’t think of a single feature missing from what I need every day. There may be some edge cases, but I haven’t bumped into any yet." I haven't used Google Docs much, but haven't they improved significantly in the past three years? Furthermore, he noted while at MSFT that the killer feature is collaboration, not the number of unique word count statistics. I see little in the way of inconsistency here. Doesn't Ballmer change his arguments at least twice a year when it comes to dissing competitive offerings?

Periodic 17y ago
Many of those quotes are 2-3 years old. Google has been consistently improving their web offerings and the speed of web apps has been getting better and better. I have changed my opinion of products and companies over a the span of years many times. I think we should agree that he can too.
- ShabbyDoo 17y ago
  Perhaps I wasn't sufficiently clear...I agree with you entirely. And, I don't see much evidence that he's actually changed his opinion much over time.
spatulon 17y ago
Technically, you're right. But in both cases he's carefully choosing his words to make his employer's product sound better. It's patronising because it implies: * that I'm not capable of noticing any drawbacks of the product, which he conveniently didn't mention, and * that I would ever give any serious consideration to a spokesman's supposed opinions of his own company's product. I would have much more respect for somebody who came out and praised the competition and acknowledged what they got right instead of what they got wrong. It would show much more confidence in his/her own product.

jfager 17y ago

Clicking through to the cited posts: 1. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/12/options_on_goog.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/12/optio... - Most of this post is praising Google for their TSO program. Microsoft is mentioned almost as an afterthought, to show that they also have good employee benefits (not exactly a secret). 2. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2005/11/google_data_cen.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2005/11/googl... - This was written in 2005, and is pretty much exactly in line with the predominant sentiment of that time. It's hard to make the case even today that Google has yet really attacked MS directly (no desktop OS, a much lighter office suite, etc). 3. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/10/office_20_free_.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/10/offic... - Again, mostly in praise of Google, talking specifically about how online office suites are a potentially disruptive technology that MS is scrambling to get a slice of like everyone else. And, feature-for-feature, um, of course MS Office wins. But if you don't care about feature count, so what? 4. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/12/google-vs-micro.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/12/googl... - He specifically says Google is to today's MS as Toyota was to Ford or MS was to IBM 30 years ago. The whimper about MS having smart folks who have played disruptor themselves doesn't exactly equate to "Google won't disrupt MS". 5. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/02/google_apps_tak.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/02/googl... - Alright, Fake Steve has this one pretty spot on. 6. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/05/windows_live_ho.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/05/windo... - It's a product blurb, followed by the drooling endorsement of pointing out that people usually don't completely abandon their old email addresses even if they move on to something else.

sgk284 17y ago
It's worth noting that every single quote is from 2005, 2006 or 2007. A lot has changed in the past 2 to 4 years.
- slig 17y ago
  > Gmail is a reasonable alternative to Hotmail or Yahoo Mail, but it doesn't compare to Microsoft Outlook Gmail is pretty much the same, sans themes and offline access.

padmanabhan01 17y ago

'Even Microsoft’s online version of Outlook called Outlook Web Access is far better than Gmail' Even according to the standards of marketers/evengelists, this is so overboard.

youngian 17y ago
Wow, yeah. No one who actually uses OWA on a regular basis could say that with a straight face. Gmail was far superior, right from launch (or at least as close to launch as I got an invite).
albemuth 17y ago
Laughable is an understatement, OWA is so unbelievably bad...
kqr2 17y ago
I am one of the unfortunate people that have to use Outlook Web Access at work. Unless you use IE, you lose a lot of features. Since I use firefox, I find that even Hotmail is better than OWA.
- aufreak 17y ago
  You can actually use your gmail account to check your exchange accounts. If your work place allows that, go right ahead! I've been accessing my univ exchange account via gmail and never regretted it.

ramanujan 17y ago

I believe Scoble at least waited a few weeks to make his conversions seem organic. I think this would have less of a bad taste if we thought of these guys as being particularly conniving salespeople rather than "evangelists". After Goog prevented Jon Skeet from getting his MS MVP award, this post might also have been internall encouuraged by Google. Nothing would demoralize MS more than seeing its ex-girlfriend sleeping with its hated rival (even if they initiated the breakup).

mattmaroon 17y ago

FSJ is the tech industry's court jester.

dpapathanasiou 17y ago

"I sent a copy of this to Katie with a note asking how we missed out on this guy, because he's exactly the kind of coin-operated true believer we need around here." LOL

c00p3r 17y ago

The point is to get well paid for publishing such blah-blah-blah. And he did.