6 ms·

This excerpt is truly one of the best things I've read recently: > It stems from a somewhat bizarre British government decision, taken during World War II, to

by greggyb 12y ago

This excerpt is truly one of the best things I've read recently: > It stems from a somewhat bizarre British government decision, taken during World War II, to reclassify some of its more remote island possessions as ships. Tristan was transmuted into HMS Atlantic Isle, and its role was to patrol (from its rock-hewn state of immobility) for any German U-boats that might be lurking in the southern Atlantic. To compound the fantasy a small party of sailors was posted there to man the ship

emmelaich 12y ago
Referring to land bases as HMS dates from 1805. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_frigate Which doesn't negate the reason for this particular decision of course.
- ars 12y ago
  Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsinkable_aircraft_carrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsinkable_aircraft_carrier
- cperciva 12y ago
  My grandfather once told me the story of a Nazi propaganda broadcast which attempted to damage British morale by (falsely) announcing the sinking of a "ship", only to backfire when they used the name of a stone frigate. Unfortunately I can't find any reference online, so the story may be apocryphal; has anyone else heard this?
  - funkyy 12y ago
    How would this backfire? -by revealing the truth to soldiers in propaganda controlled media? -by not allowing for fake news to enter news circulation in Britain? -or maybe to try to uncover the truth in state owned German newspapers? I don't see any field for backfiring.
    - Crito 12y ago
      By making the Germans seem ridiculous to the British, rather than demoralizing the British.
  - ableal 12y ago
    Forgive me, but to me what sounds like propaganda is the story itself, as in "Ah ah, those dumb liars got caught" in a lie they never told ...
  - rglovejoy 12y ago
    I recall that during the first Gulf War, Iraqi propaganda broadcasts were telling American servicemen that their wives and girlfriends back home were carrying on with Bart Simpson.
  - madaxe_again 12y ago
    Here you go: http://www.ukings.ca/hmcs-kings-wardroom http://www.ukings.ca/hmcs-kings-wardroom They apparently claimed to have sunk.... a college. Edit: Also, http://www.secret-tunnels.co.uk/FwdH-Haw.htm http://www.secret-tunnels.co.uk/FwdH-Haw.htm Either it's apocryphal or the kriegsmarine had a knack for making silly announcements. I'm inclined to think the former, and that it was more likely black propaganda to make the enemy appear stupid.
  - cperciva 12y ago
    Replying to myself since it's too late to edit: /r/AskHistorians came through with this: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/344o4f/ww2_german_propaganda_broadcast_to_uk_claimed/cqrbk7u http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/344o4f/ww2_ge...
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  The U.S. Navy has also been known to do this. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Desert_Ship_(LLS-1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Desert_Ship_(LLS-1)
  - analog31 12y ago
    I wonder if it has something to do with the career advancement of the service members who are stationed there, i.e., if there is some sort of higher prestige (or pay) for people who have served on a ship.
    - bandrami 12y ago
      Yes. Officers above a certain rank have to be on a "rated" ship, and IIRC the stone frigates were all 4th-rates, which meant a senior Post Captain (later just a captain) could be in command there and not lose his seniority. And in fact, the first stone frigate command (of a rock in the Atlantic) was given to the lieutenant who had led the assault that took the island. Since the act gave him promotion to Captain, he couldn't command his old cutter anymore, so they came up with the stone frigate idea. Later on it became more of an unofficial punishment; a way to take a commander who was too senior to just keep on the beach and put him somewhere that he wouldn't do too much harm. For any "Master and Commander" book series fans, Jack was threatened with being sent off to a stone frigate in I think "The Yellow Admiral".
- brudgers 12y ago
  A practical application of duck typing. Both are a bunch of dry people surrounded by water. @anchor is a constant for one and a variable for the other.
  - stickfigure 12y ago
    "And what else floats in water?" "Bread" "Apples" "Very small islands"
mcguire 12y ago
A better one: "For though I sedulously followed the rule of taking nothing and leaving nothing, it suddenly seemed to me that my very being on the island, and my later decision to record my impressions of that visit and the impressions of earlier visitors, had resulted in a series of entirely unintended and unanticipated consequences—consequences that were as inimical to the islanders’ contentment as if I had plundered or polluted there. "I had no understanding whatsoever that by repeating that naval officer’s memoir, I could hurt the feelings of anyone. To my clumsy, unthinking, touristic mind, the notion seemed quite absurd. To be sure, old Kenneth Rogers had explained it to me kindly—but I had chosen to ignore his warning, to dismiss his assertion of feeling. I had failed, even for one second, to consider what he and his fellow islanders might think—because I held to an unspoken assumption that as a visitor from the sophisticated outside, I knew better, and that I had something of a prescriptive right to do with him and his like, more or less as I pleased...."
abandonliberty 12y ago
Appears to be a legal oddity. Renaming the islands to boats must have seemed an easy solution at the time. >Under section 67 of the Naval Discipline Act 1866, the provisions of the act only applied to officers and men of the Royal Navy borne on the books of a warship.
logicallee 12y ago
No effing way. I'm sorry, no way. This is like the Simpsons with: Homer, I'm in a rhubarb of a pickle of a jam here. I was all set to go off on vacation when I get called up for jury duty. Oh, it's a corker of a case. Seems a man drove up onto a traffic island and hit a decorative rowboat full of geraniums. Now they're trying it as a maritime offense.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
damian2000 12y ago
The Royal Australian Navy does this too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Stirling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Stirling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Albatross_%28air_station%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Albatross_%28air_station%2...
- antimagic 12y ago
  My personal favourite is HMAS Harman - located about 100km from the ocean... https://encrypted.google.com/maps?q=HMAS+harman&hl=fr&ll=-35.346495,149.202576&spn=1.321763,2.883911&sll=38.134557,-95.712891&sspn=40.42861,92.285156&hq=HMAS+harman&radius=15000&t=m&z=9 https://encrypted.google.com/maps?q=HMAS+harman&hl=fr&ll=-35...
- SomeoneWeird 12y ago
  Don't forget HMAS Cerberus[0] which is also a suburb. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Cerberus_%28naval_base%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Cerberus_%28naval_base%29
blueskin_ 12y ago
Hasn't the US done this too, even if not recently then at least historically? The Royal Navy still does this today though.
teh_klev 12y ago
The British MOD's Vulcan Naval Reactor Test Establishment at Dounreay in Caithness in the north of Scotland used to be known as HMS Vulcan [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dounreay#Vulcan_NRTE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dounreay#Vulcan_NRTE

by greggyb 12y ago

emmelaich 12y ago

Referring to land bases as HMS dates from 1805. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_frigate Which doesn't negate the reason for this particular decision of course.

ars 12y ago
Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsinkable_aircraft_carrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsinkable_aircraft_carrier
cperciva 12y ago
My grandfather once told me the story of a Nazi propaganda broadcast which attempted to damage British morale by (falsely) announcing the sinking of a "ship", only to backfire when they used the name of a stone frigate. Unfortunately I can't find any reference online, so the story may be apocryphal; has anyone else heard this?
- funkyy 12y ago
  How would this backfire? -by revealing the truth to soldiers in propaganda controlled media? -by not allowing for fake news to enter news circulation in Britain? -or maybe to try to uncover the truth in state owned German newspapers? I don't see any field for backfiring.
  - Crito 12y ago
    By making the Germans seem ridiculous to the British, rather than demoralizing the British.
- ableal 12y ago
  Forgive me, but to me what sounds like propaganda is the story itself, as in "Ah ah, those dumb liars got caught" in a lie they never told ...
- rglovejoy 12y ago
  I recall that during the first Gulf War, Iraqi propaganda broadcasts were telling American servicemen that their wives and girlfriends back home were carrying on with Bart Simpson.
- madaxe_again 12y ago
  Here you go: http://www.ukings.ca/hmcs-kings-wardroom http://www.ukings.ca/hmcs-kings-wardroom They apparently claimed to have sunk.... a college. Edit: Also, http://www.secret-tunnels.co.uk/FwdH-Haw.htm http://www.secret-tunnels.co.uk/FwdH-Haw.htm Either it's apocryphal or the kriegsmarine had a knack for making silly announcements. I'm inclined to think the former, and that it was more likely black propaganda to make the enemy appear stupid.
- cperciva 12y ago
  Replying to myself since it's too late to edit: /r/AskHistorians came through with this: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/344o4f/ww2_german_propaganda_broadcast_to_uk_claimed/cqrbk7u http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/344o4f/ww2_ge...
Turing_Machine 12y ago
The U.S. Navy has also been known to do this. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Desert_Ship_(LLS-1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Desert_Ship_(LLS-1)
- analog31 12y ago
  I wonder if it has something to do with the career advancement of the service members who are stationed there, i.e., if there is some sort of higher prestige (or pay) for people who have served on a ship.
  - bandrami 12y ago
    Yes. Officers above a certain rank have to be on a "rated" ship, and IIRC the stone frigates were all 4th-rates, which meant a senior Post Captain (later just a captain) could be in command there and not lose his seniority. And in fact, the first stone frigate command (of a rock in the Atlantic) was given to the lieutenant who had led the assault that took the island. Since the act gave him promotion to Captain, he couldn't command his old cutter anymore, so they came up with the stone frigate idea. Later on it became more of an unofficial punishment; a way to take a commander who was too senior to just keep on the beach and put him somewhere that he wouldn't do too much harm. For any "Master and Commander" book series fans, Jack was threatened with being sent off to a stone frigate in I think "The Yellow Admiral".
brudgers 12y ago
A practical application of duck typing. Both are a bunch of dry people surrounded by water. @anchor is a constant for one and a variable for the other.
- stickfigure 12y ago
  "And what else floats in water?" "Bread" "Apples" "Very small islands"

mcguire 12y ago

A better one: "For though I sedulously followed the rule of taking nothing and leaving nothing, it suddenly seemed to me that my very being on the island, and my later decision to record my impressions of that visit and the impressions of earlier visitors, had resulted in a series of entirely unintended and unanticipated consequences—consequences that were as inimical to the islanders’ contentment as if I had plundered or polluted there. "I had no understanding whatsoever that by repeating that naval officer’s memoir, I could hurt the feelings of anyone. To my clumsy, unthinking, touristic mind, the notion seemed quite absurd. To be sure, old Kenneth Rogers had explained it to me kindly—but I had chosen to ignore his warning, to dismiss his assertion of feeling. I had failed, even for one second, to consider what he and his fellow islanders might think—because I held to an unspoken assumption that as a visitor from the sophisticated outside, I knew better, and that I had something of a prescriptive right to do with him and his like, more or less as I pleased...."

abandonliberty 12y ago

Appears to be a legal oddity. Renaming the islands to boats must have seemed an easy solution at the time. >Under section 67 of the Naval Discipline Act 1866, the provisions of the act only applied to officers and men of the Royal Navy borne on the books of a warship.

logicallee 12y ago

No effing way. I'm sorry, no way. This is like the Simpsons with: Homer, I'm in a rhubarb of a pickle of a jam here. I was all set to go off on vacation when I get called up for jury duty. Oh, it's a corker of a case. Seems a man drove up onto a traffic island and hit a decorative rowboat full of geraniums. Now they're trying it as a maritime offense.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

damian2000 12y ago

The Royal Australian Navy does this too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Stirling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Stirling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Albatross_%28air_station%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Albatross_%28air_station%2...

antimagic 12y ago
My personal favourite is HMAS Harman - located about 100km from the ocean... https://encrypted.google.com/maps?q=HMAS+harman&hl=fr&ll=-35.346495,149.202576&spn=1.321763,2.883911&sll=38.134557,-95.712891&sspn=40.42861,92.285156&hq=HMAS+harman&radius=15000&t=m&z=9 https://encrypted.google.com/maps?q=HMAS+harman&hl=fr&ll=-35...
SomeoneWeird 12y ago
Don't forget HMAS Cerberus[0] which is also a suburb. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Cerberus_%28naval_base%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Cerberus_%28naval_base%29

blueskin_ 12y ago

Hasn't the US done this too, even if not recently then at least historically? The Royal Navy still does this today though.

teh_klev 12y ago

The British MOD's Vulcan Naval Reactor Test Establishment at Dounreay in Caithness in the north of Scotland used to be known as HMS Vulcan [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dounreay#Vulcan_NRTE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dounreay#Vulcan_NRTE