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> How else is one supposed to react to this other than with cynicism? How about empowerment instead of cynicism? Maybe it's possible to build browsers and adv

by 6a68 11y ago

> How else is one supposed to react to this other than with cynicism? How about empowerment instead of cynicism? Maybe it's possible to build browsers and advertising and mobile devices that don't relentlessly erode privacy. I work at Mozilla to help build that tech. I firmly believe the dystopian corporate future isn't the only option. You should check us out: https://www.mozilla.org/mission https://www.mozilla.org/mission

whoopdedo 11y ago
> Maybe it's possible to build browsers and advertising and mobile devices that don't relentlessly erode privacy. That's nice a nice sentiment. I'd be less skeptical if Firefox didn't change my default search engine behind my back. (After updating Android from 31 to 36.)
- rockdoe 11y ago
  If you changed the defaults, it was kept. If you never set a search engine, the shipped default was changed (and clearly mentioned as such in the release notes not to mention all over the press, so saying "behind my back" is quite funny).
  - talmand 11y ago
    Just to play devil's advocate, what if the default was the choice the user wanted?
    - rockdoe 11y ago
      Then he can switch it after having read the release notes pointing it out? The behind the back part was unwarranted, so the only thing that's remaining really is "I preferred the previous default" which doesn't quite jive with the "I'm skeptical regarding privacy" complaint that was made.
      - talmand 11y ago
        Then that's just bad design. If there was a possibility of them switching out the pre-determined defaults then the default choices should have been asked of the user from the beginning. But then, it's hard to make money that way so I can understand why they wouldn't do that. EDIT: you edited, but I agree the "behind the back" isn't quite right.
        rockdoe 11y ago
        Presenting modal dialogs to the users on first run is considered terrible UX design with a high bounce rate. The way you state it, you'd have to ask the user to verify every single setting in your app. That is problematic. Making money doesn't even have to factor in. (Ok, if nobody uses the apps, you're not making money either, but you get what I mean)
        talmand 11y ago
        I don't think I stated they should ask for every single setting in the app. Exaggerating to support your claim is not the way to go. But, considering we're discussing a rather popular and commonly used feature that is front-facing in the browser; yes, they should ask up front which search engine provider you would prefer to use. Especially if they plan for the likelihood to change the default, which may be a user's preferred choice. Also, since they were receiving money from Google to have it be the default search engine and they switched to Yahoo because they got another/better deal; it is about the money. EDIT: another thought, if the choice provided has a high bounce rate then obviously it would just go with a determined default in that case. Hopefully it wouldn't prevent them from using the app because they declined to set preferences on first run. If they chose not to set the preference and the default later changes, then it's on them.
        Karunamon 11y ago
        Internet Explorer 8 used to do this on first run - that is, prompting you to confirm your default search provider and whatnot. [1] It sucked, because most people would open IE, expect the browser, instead get this dialog instead of the browser, and just click the "ask me later" button each time, thereby loading the browser with defaults. And then of course, it comes up again the next time you start the browser. Back in my technician days, I dealt with a lot of tickets about this. Even a cursory glance at the window explains what it is and what it does, and it only takes like three clicks to finish the process and then never deal with it again. Most people didn't care, they just wanted the damn window out of their way so they could open the browser and do their job, so they select the option that leads to the lest friction - go away and ask me later. The point being, what you suggest is not an improvement of the user experience. The number of people so invested in the default search engine that they make value judgments about what comes set by default is much lower than the people who would be annoyed by a prompt to set it. Average users don't freaking read their screens. If they did, frontline tech support people would be nearly out of a job. [1]:http://www.sevenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/100217d1285433130-internet-explorer-8-9-enable-disable-first-run-set-up-pop-up-ie8.jpg http://www.sevenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/100217d1285...
  - tomc1985 11y ago
    I woke up one day (after clicking update) to find my default search engine set to Yahoo and ads in my new tab page. You can mention it all you want in the release notes, but users don't expect nor want those kinds of things to change. The only thing more behind-the-back than that is Chrome yanking Java (well, NPAPI) with no warning in Update 42
  - whoopdedo 11y ago
    I had it set to DDG prior. After upgrade it was Yahoo. I know that Hanlon's Razor tells me to suspect it was just a bug. But the current environment of money and politics makes it hard to ignore the alternative.
- nosuchthing 11y ago
  Feel free to revert back to 31 and write your own updates & bug fixes.
  - whoopdedo 11y ago
    I actually did revert to 31 but only because 36 was unusably slow.
- UweSchmidt 11y ago
  Come on, it's not really "behind your back" if it's something you can immediately see on the page. The search engine thing is the one thing you'd have to deal with as it just about pays for all of Mozilla.
UserRights 11y ago
I respect the work you do and mozilla does many great things - however, when I start freshly installed firefox (on ubuntu), I have already a google cookie set. Why?
- alexbel 11y ago
  Because google gives money to mozilla?

by 6a68 11y ago

whoopdedo 11y ago

> Maybe it's possible to build browsers and advertising and mobile devices that don't relentlessly erode privacy. That's nice a nice sentiment. I'd be less skeptical if Firefox didn't change my default search engine behind my back. (After updating Android from 31 to 36.)

rockdoe 11y ago
If you changed the defaults, it was kept. If you never set a search engine, the shipped default was changed (and clearly mentioned as such in the release notes not to mention all over the press, so saying "behind my back" is quite funny).
- talmand 11y ago
  Just to play devil's advocate, what if the default was the choice the user wanted?
  - rockdoe 11y ago
    Then he can switch it after having read the release notes pointing it out? The behind the back part was unwarranted, so the only thing that's remaining really is "I preferred the previous default" which doesn't quite jive with the "I'm skeptical regarding privacy" complaint that was made.
    - talmand 11y ago
      Then that's just bad design. If there was a possibility of them switching out the pre-determined defaults then the default choices should have been asked of the user from the beginning. But then, it's hard to make money that way so I can understand why they wouldn't do that. EDIT: you edited, but I agree the "behind the back" isn't quite right.
      - rockdoe 11y ago
        Presenting modal dialogs to the users on first run is considered terrible UX design with a high bounce rate. The way you state it, you'd have to ask the user to verify every single setting in your app. That is problematic. Making money doesn't even have to factor in. (Ok, if nobody uses the apps, you're not making money either, but you get what I mean)
        talmand 11y ago
        I don't think I stated they should ask for every single setting in the app. Exaggerating to support your claim is not the way to go. But, considering we're discussing a rather popular and commonly used feature that is front-facing in the browser; yes, they should ask up front which search engine provider you would prefer to use. Especially if they plan for the likelihood to change the default, which may be a user's preferred choice. Also, since they were receiving money from Google to have it be the default search engine and they switched to Yahoo because they got another/better deal; it is about the money. EDIT: another thought, if the choice provided has a high bounce rate then obviously it would just go with a determined default in that case. Hopefully it wouldn't prevent them from using the app because they declined to set preferences on first run. If they chose not to set the preference and the default later changes, then it's on them.
        Karunamon 11y ago
        Internet Explorer 8 used to do this on first run - that is, prompting you to confirm your default search provider and whatnot. [1] It sucked, because most people would open IE, expect the browser, instead get this dialog instead of the browser, and just click the "ask me later" button each time, thereby loading the browser with defaults. And then of course, it comes up again the next time you start the browser. Back in my technician days, I dealt with a lot of tickets about this. Even a cursory glance at the window explains what it is and what it does, and it only takes like three clicks to finish the process and then never deal with it again. Most people didn't care, they just wanted the damn window out of their way so they could open the browser and do their job, so they select the option that leads to the lest friction - go away and ask me later. The point being, what you suggest is not an improvement of the user experience. The number of people so invested in the default search engine that they make value judgments about what comes set by default is much lower than the people who would be annoyed by a prompt to set it. Average users don't freaking read their screens. If they did, frontline tech support people would be nearly out of a job. [1]:http://www.sevenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/100217d1285433130-internet-explorer-8-9-enable-disable-first-run-set-up-pop-up-ie8.jpg http://www.sevenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/100217d1285...
- tomc1985 11y ago
  I woke up one day (after clicking update) to find my default search engine set to Yahoo and ads in my new tab page. You can mention it all you want in the release notes, but users don't expect nor want those kinds of things to change. The only thing more behind-the-back than that is Chrome yanking Java (well, NPAPI) with no warning in Update 42
- whoopdedo 11y ago
  I had it set to DDG prior. After upgrade it was Yahoo. I know that Hanlon's Razor tells me to suspect it was just a bug. But the current environment of money and politics makes it hard to ignore the alternative.
nosuchthing 11y ago
Feel free to revert back to 31 and write your own updates & bug fixes.
- whoopdedo 11y ago
  I actually did revert to 31 but only because 36 was unusably slow.
UweSchmidt 11y ago
Come on, it's not really "behind your back" if it's something you can immediately see on the page. The search engine thing is the one thing you'd have to deal with as it just about pays for all of Mozilla.

UserRights 11y ago

I respect the work you do and mozilla does many great things - however, when I start freshly installed firefox (on ubuntu), I have already a google cookie set. Why?

alexbel 11y ago
Because google gives money to mozilla?