5 ms·

There's an animated gif somewhere that I'm having trouble finding at the moment, but for the most part, it's reflected in this article here: http://blogs.chica

by bmelton 12y ago

There's an animated gif somewhere that I'm having trouble finding at the moment, but for the most part, it's reflected in this article here: http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2011/03/the-spread-of-concealed-carry-firearms-laws-over-the-last-25-years.html http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2011/0... Long story short, acceptance of gun rights has been generally winning over gun control, though the patterns are almost the polar opposite of those reflected in the Bloomberg article. Edit: It's worth pointing out that, true to form (for America at least), a lot of those states flipped colors as a result of a lawsuit, in which conformant legislation came after the fact. Edit edit: I don't know how much editorial influence Michael Bloomberg has on Bloomberg News, but as Bloomberg News appears to be anti-gun, and Michael Bloomberg is quite obviously so, might there be a connection?

hga 12y ago
At the Federal level, only Illinois flipped as the result of a lawsuit, and I can remember only West Virginia flipping due to a state level one. Do you know of any more, not counting the in-process California, Hawaii (both probably doomed) and D.C. lawsuits?
- bmelton 12y ago
  Heller v. DC was like a beacon, basically. Many towns and cities abandoned their DC-like restrictions as a result of Heller, including towns in Illinois (that weren't Chicago, obviously). Beyond that, you're right, federally there's been very little activity, but a lot of the cases are loosely correlated, such that the cases gradually eroded the resistance to gun rights which paved the way towards gun-rights-friendly legislation. Or, perhaps I'm romanticizing it. While I'm not in cahoots with the NRA, I do follow gun cases fairly closely, and there's been a fairly constant level of activity since 2008.
  - hga 12y ago
    Another big thing that I ought to have mentioned in my overall survey of the changes is that most, if not the vast majority of states enacted gun control preemption laws after the Supremes denied cert in 1981 in the lawsuit appealing the outright ban of handgun ownership in Morton Grove, Illinois. Almost needless to say, those didn't include Illinois, which per lawyer David Hardy (http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/11/winnetka_il_rep.php http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/11/winnetka_il_rep.ph...) included 6 municipalities with handgun bans. 4 surrendered, to my memory Oak Park with Chicago covering their legal bills and Chicago fought and lost in McDonald (resulting in multiple high six figure checks paid by Chicago to the plaintiffs). I honestly cannot recall another municipality that reversed, although I wouldn't be surprised a few others did. Given how few major ones have/had handgun bans, just Chicago, D.C. and NYC (outside of a very few politically connected), and what a big deal it was nationwide when Morton Grove pulled their stunt, I'd be disappointed with my news sources if I'd missed any.
    - bmelton 12y ago
      You're probably not wrong, but to put my earlier comments into light, Morton Grove was one of the ones who reversed their position legislatively as a result of the Heller decision. I think it's fair to categorize Morton Grove either way, but perhaps it is errant of me to imply close correlation. Edit: Actually, I recant. Many cities have overturned legislation as a result of suit, but looking at the context, we aren't talking about cities, we're talking about states. As to the discussion on how states go from rights-restrictive to rights-permissive, I agree that it has predominately been done legislatively.
      - hga 12y ago
        Errr, no, I'm talking about both states and cities. Although maybe some other cities in non-preemption states, but the only ones I can remember are Illinois, Nebraska (it came up after the state went shall issue), and Colorado for Denver, but that was carved out by the courts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Colorado#Denver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Colorado#Denver). This is interesting enough that I checked all the Wikipedia pages after only finding vague "almost all states": Illinois has now preempted most regulations. Massachusetts has "limited preemption", but I remember it to be pretty general. Nebraska is in "most but not all", so I assume the shall issue issues were ironed out, as I vaguely recall. New Jersey is limited (no surprise, it and Massachusetts really would like to outlaw guns altogether and mere ownership is massively restricted), New York of course. Basically Morton Grove's handgun ban lit a fire under state legislatures, most date from the mid-80s. The above excludes things like some states allowing some cities to outlaw carrying in parks and the like, the usual discharge laws, plus various grandfathered laws, none super-onerous as far as I know aside from registration in Clark County, Nevada (Las Vegas). Then again, there's been a whole lot of lawsuits to enforce state preemption; that's not Heller based, but it is of course done in the courts. At least a couple of states have made it particularly expensive for cities to resist, legislatures don't like their authority being questioned....

by bmelton 12y ago

hga 12y ago

At the Federal level, only Illinois flipped as the result of a lawsuit, and I can remember only West Virginia flipping due to a state level one. Do you know of any more, not counting the in-process California, Hawaii (both probably doomed) and D.C. lawsuits?

bmelton 12y ago
Heller v. DC was like a beacon, basically. Many towns and cities abandoned their DC-like restrictions as a result of Heller, including towns in Illinois (that weren't Chicago, obviously). Beyond that, you're right, federally there's been very little activity, but a lot of the cases are loosely correlated, such that the cases gradually eroded the resistance to gun rights which paved the way towards gun-rights-friendly legislation. Or, perhaps I'm romanticizing it. While I'm not in cahoots with the NRA, I do follow gun cases fairly closely, and there's been a fairly constant level of activity since 2008.
- hga 12y ago
  Another big thing that I ought to have mentioned in my overall survey of the changes is that most, if not the vast majority of states enacted gun control preemption laws after the Supremes denied cert in 1981 in the lawsuit appealing the outright ban of handgun ownership in Morton Grove, Illinois. Almost needless to say, those didn't include Illinois, which per lawyer David Hardy (http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/11/winnetka_il_rep.php http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/11/winnetka_il_rep.ph...) included 6 municipalities with handgun bans. 4 surrendered, to my memory Oak Park with Chicago covering their legal bills and Chicago fought and lost in McDonald (resulting in multiple high six figure checks paid by Chicago to the plaintiffs). I honestly cannot recall another municipality that reversed, although I wouldn't be surprised a few others did. Given how few major ones have/had handgun bans, just Chicago, D.C. and NYC (outside of a very few politically connected), and what a big deal it was nationwide when Morton Grove pulled their stunt, I'd be disappointed with my news sources if I'd missed any.
  - bmelton 12y ago
    You're probably not wrong, but to put my earlier comments into light, Morton Grove was one of the ones who reversed their position legislatively as a result of the Heller decision. I think it's fair to categorize Morton Grove either way, but perhaps it is errant of me to imply close correlation. Edit: Actually, I recant. Many cities have overturned legislation as a result of suit, but looking at the context, we aren't talking about cities, we're talking about states. As to the discussion on how states go from rights-restrictive to rights-permissive, I agree that it has predominately been done legislatively.
    - hga 12y ago
      Errr, no, I'm talking about both states and cities. Although maybe some other cities in non-preemption states, but the only ones I can remember are Illinois, Nebraska (it came up after the state went shall issue), and Colorado for Denver, but that was carved out by the courts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Colorado#Denver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Colorado#Denver). This is interesting enough that I checked all the Wikipedia pages after only finding vague "almost all states": Illinois has now preempted most regulations. Massachusetts has "limited preemption", but I remember it to be pretty general. Nebraska is in "most but not all", so I assume the shall issue issues were ironed out, as I vaguely recall. New Jersey is limited (no surprise, it and Massachusetts really would like to outlaw guns altogether and mere ownership is massively restricted), New York of course. Basically Morton Grove's handgun ban lit a fire under state legislatures, most date from the mid-80s. The above excludes things like some states allowing some cities to outlaw carrying in parks and the like, the usual discharge laws, plus various grandfathered laws, none super-onerous as far as I know aside from registration in Clark County, Nevada (Las Vegas). Then again, there's been a whole lot of lawsuits to enforce state preemption; that's not Heller based, but it is of course done in the courts. At least a couple of states have made it particularly expensive for cities to resist, legislatures don't like their authority being questioned....