4 ms·

I don't doubt that this is true in general and is sufficient to destroy any attempt to have students control professor selection, but I'm hesitant to take too m

by nilkn 12y ago

I don't doubt that this is true in general and is sufficient to destroy any attempt to have students control professor selection, but I'm hesitant to take too much away from this. The best professor in my school's math department was also the most beloved; he was routinely showered with praise by students, and his students were also very successful in later classes. And his classes were not at all easy. I guess we can rank teachers in three tiers: (1) The lowest tier, consisting of teachers both loved and despised who either way fail to prepare students for future classes. (2) Abhorred teachers who do succeed in preparing students for future coursework. (3) The highest tier, consisting of beloved teachers who do succeed in preparing students for future coursework. It's very hard to get into the third tier, because it requires remarkable finesse to make students feel good about having to work extremely hard and possibly still not getting a good grade.

Tloewald 12y ago
I suspect (3) is pretty much impossible, and being — say — 2.5 involves being a gifted entertainer and either having tenure or dumbing down your grading to avoid ticking off students just for giving out fair grades.
- nilkn 12y ago
  I think (3) is possible, though exceedingly rare, and perhaps Feynman would be an example.
fragmede 12y ago
> The best professor in my school's math department was also the most beloved Out of curiosity, what class traditionally 'belonged' to that teacher? Freshman classes for non-majors (think pre-algebra for art majors) taught in a harsh-but-fair manner is going to score differently than an upper-class or graduate level on manifolds.
- Crito 12y ago
  In my case, there were two professors that were widely loved and often cited as the best professors. One was an english professor who had control over the courses about science fiction and fantasy, and often taught a Tolkien course. No real mystery why he was so popular (although he was also a really great personable guy). The other was a math professor that taught the standard assortment of undergrad math classes. I had him for Calc I, Calc III, and Discrete. Most of the math professors in my university that were teaching those classes (particularly the calculus classes) were either hated or unknown. However he had a reputation for being a truly gifted lecturer, and for having incredibly accommodating office hours. His reputation was well earned and deserved.
  - Kalium 12y ago
    > One was an english professor who had control over the courses about science fiction and fantasy, and often taught a Tolkien course. No real mystery why he was so popular (although he was also a really great personable guy). Michigan? Rabkin?
    - Crito 12y ago
      Afraid not; professor in Philadelphia. I suspect that the professors who teach these kind of courses often get great reputations. ;) I never actually took any of those classes from him (very difficult classes to get into), but I did have a creative writing class with him freshmen year. He gave me a lot of really good feedback that made it clear that he had carefully read what I wrote. A very good professor in his own right, but teaching those very popular classes could only help.
- nilkn 12y ago
  He primarily taught the Honors Calculus sequence, but would occasionally teach other courses as well. Many math majors went straight into analysis, so a good portion of his students were engineering and pre-med students rather than pure math majors. His classes were notoriously hard, but he was so well-liked for four reasons: (1) he was a gifted lecturer who put an immense amount of effort into finding clear explanations of every single concept -- nothing was spared from his relentless pursuit for clarity; he was also genuinely excited about the subject and was able to pass that excitement off to students. I think students appreciated that, instead of putting his effort into creating some complicated class structure and a huge syllabus and fancy slides, he instead invested himself in finding the best possible explanations. There was definitely a sense that attending his lecture was a lot more valuable than reading the book, though that was always recommended too. (2) he was very generous with his time and would always accommodate questions or requests for help. (3) he took a keen interest in each and every student and kept up-to-date on everyone's individual progress; he never wanted anyone to accidentally get left behind. That doesn't mean that he'd give you a good grade out of sympathy, but it would be clear by the end of the class that you wouldn't have anyone to blame but yourself if you didn't do well. Even for the most jaded student, it's hard to be mad at the professor when it's made exceedingly clear that it's your own fault for not doing well. (4) he was absolutely and utterly not pretentious in any way, and he was, in general, extremely kind; he had a way of making anyone feel welcome, even excited, to be in his classes, even if you weren't a math major or weren't very interested in math.

by nilkn 12y ago

Tloewald 12y ago

I suspect (3) is pretty much impossible, and being — say — 2.5 involves being a gifted entertainer and either having tenure or dumbing down your grading to avoid ticking off students just for giving out fair grades.

nilkn 12y ago
I think (3) is possible, though exceedingly rare, and perhaps Feynman would be an example.

fragmede 12y ago

> The best professor in my school's math department was also the most beloved Out of curiosity, what class traditionally 'belonged' to that teacher? Freshman classes for non-majors (think pre-algebra for art majors) taught in a harsh-but-fair manner is going to score differently than an upper-class or graduate level on manifolds.

Crito 12y ago
In my case, there were two professors that were widely loved and often cited as the best professors. One was an english professor who had control over the courses about science fiction and fantasy, and often taught a Tolkien course. No real mystery why he was so popular (although he was also a really great personable guy). The other was a math professor that taught the standard assortment of undergrad math classes. I had him for Calc I, Calc III, and Discrete. Most of the math professors in my university that were teaching those classes (particularly the calculus classes) were either hated or unknown. However he had a reputation for being a truly gifted lecturer, and for having incredibly accommodating office hours. His reputation was well earned and deserved.
- Kalium 12y ago
  > One was an english professor who had control over the courses about science fiction and fantasy, and often taught a Tolkien course. No real mystery why he was so popular (although he was also a really great personable guy). Michigan? Rabkin?
  - Crito 12y ago
    Afraid not; professor in Philadelphia. I suspect that the professors who teach these kind of courses often get great reputations. ;) I never actually took any of those classes from him (very difficult classes to get into), but I did have a creative writing class with him freshmen year. He gave me a lot of really good feedback that made it clear that he had carefully read what I wrote. A very good professor in his own right, but teaching those very popular classes could only help.
nilkn 12y ago
He primarily taught the Honors Calculus sequence, but would occasionally teach other courses as well. Many math majors went straight into analysis, so a good portion of his students were engineering and pre-med students rather than pure math majors. His classes were notoriously hard, but he was so well-liked for four reasons: (1) he was a gifted lecturer who put an immense amount of effort into finding clear explanations of every single concept -- nothing was spared from his relentless pursuit for clarity; he was also genuinely excited about the subject and was able to pass that excitement off to students. I think students appreciated that, instead of putting his effort into creating some complicated class structure and a huge syllabus and fancy slides, he instead invested himself in finding the best possible explanations. There was definitely a sense that attending his lecture was a lot more valuable than reading the book, though that was always recommended too. (2) he was very generous with his time and would always accommodate questions or requests for help. (3) he took a keen interest in each and every student and kept up-to-date on everyone's individual progress; he never wanted anyone to accidentally get left behind. That doesn't mean that he'd give you a good grade out of sympathy, but it would be clear by the end of the class that you wouldn't have anyone to blame but yourself if you didn't do well. Even for the most jaded student, it's hard to be mad at the professor when it's made exceedingly clear that it's your own fault for not doing well. (4) he was absolutely and utterly not pretentious in any way, and he was, in general, extremely kind; he had a way of making anyone feel welcome, even excited, to be in his classes, even if you weren't a math major or weren't very interested in math.