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Considering we (and around the world) still fly jets from the 1970's and prior (although heavily updated) I'd say we have a handful of decades of human operatio

Considering we (and around the world) still fly jets from the 1970's and prior (although heavily updated) I'd say we have a handful of decades of human operation left.

noir_lord 12y ago
To some extent however most of the changes since the 60's have been evolutionary rather than revolutionary, pilotless aircraft are revolutionary. Even putting modern electronics into an ancient design like the Mig-21 produces a very capable aircraft (the Mig-21 Bison has held it's own against F16's and even F15C's) putting a pilotless control system into something like a modern F15 would create one hell of a fighter.
- greedo 12y ago
  Inserting a "pilotless control system" into a previously manned fighter does nothing to improve its performance, and degrades it in many ways (i.e. situational awareness). Where unmanned systems do better is in size and weight since they don't have to carry all the gear to support a human. Although you can remove ejection seats, oxygen gear etc from a manned fighter, unmanned really needs to be designed from the ground up.
- josefresco 12y ago
  An RC F-15 exists and is used for training I believe (no link handy) however I think moving forward, it would be more reasonable to expect them to make an RC/autonomous F-35 or F-22 or comparable fifth generation fighter.
  - noir_lord 12y ago
    They'd certainly be the start platform but without the human in the cockpit you can do stuff you simply can't do now like push the G-envelope right out, modern planes are often computer limited to the G's to prevent injuring the pilot. If you know you aren't going to exceed 9G you don't design the airframe for more than that, if you know the pilot is going to be a computer then you can push that out way more. You can also make them much smaller (removing the human, his seat, the redundant controls, environmental control) and somewhat more stealthy. Quite frankly they'd be terrifying as a weapons platform, they'd re-write the rules of air warfare and I suspect they'd be used a lot more than normal piloted planes because no risk of body bags on the evening news :|.
- poof131 12y ago
  Interesting that you mention the bison upgrade. The U.S. defense establishment’s inability to iterate quickly with technology is becoming an increasing liability. More, cheaper planes, with specialized roles, that can be upgraded quickly with new technology is definitely the way to go. The JSF is a disaster waiting to happen. As the saying goes, ‘armchair generals study strategy, but professionals study logistics’ forgets the last part that only fools put all their eggs in one basket.
  - noir_lord 12y ago
    Agreed, also the Bison is interesting because the Russian's put their state of the art (which might not be the wests, I'm not sure) equipment into a plane that first flew 59 years ago and went into service 56 years ago. That it turned out to be extremely capable is very interesting and compared to the stuff the west is building very cheap. As I think Lenin said "Quantity has a quality all of it's own".

Considering we (and around the world) still fly jets from the 1970's and prior (although heavily updated) I'd say we have a handful of decades of human operation left.

noir_lord 12y ago

To some extent however most of the changes since the 60's have been evolutionary rather than revolutionary, pilotless aircraft are revolutionary. Even putting modern electronics into an ancient design like the Mig-21 produces a very capable aircraft (the Mig-21 Bison has held it's own against F16's and even F15C's) putting a pilotless control system into something like a modern F15 would create one hell of a fighter.

greedo 12y ago
Inserting a "pilotless control system" into a previously manned fighter does nothing to improve its performance, and degrades it in many ways (i.e. situational awareness). Where unmanned systems do better is in size and weight since they don't have to carry all the gear to support a human. Although you can remove ejection seats, oxygen gear etc from a manned fighter, unmanned really needs to be designed from the ground up.
josefresco 12y ago
An RC F-15 exists and is used for training I believe (no link handy) however I think moving forward, it would be more reasonable to expect them to make an RC/autonomous F-35 or F-22 or comparable fifth generation fighter.
- noir_lord 12y ago
  They'd certainly be the start platform but without the human in the cockpit you can do stuff you simply can't do now like push the G-envelope right out, modern planes are often computer limited to the G's to prevent injuring the pilot. If you know you aren't going to exceed 9G you don't design the airframe for more than that, if you know the pilot is going to be a computer then you can push that out way more. You can also make them much smaller (removing the human, his seat, the redundant controls, environmental control) and somewhat more stealthy. Quite frankly they'd be terrifying as a weapons platform, they'd re-write the rules of air warfare and I suspect they'd be used a lot more than normal piloted planes because no risk of body bags on the evening news :|.
poof131 12y ago
Interesting that you mention the bison upgrade. The U.S. defense establishment’s inability to iterate quickly with technology is becoming an increasing liability. More, cheaper planes, with specialized roles, that can be upgraded quickly with new technology is definitely the way to go. The JSF is a disaster waiting to happen. As the saying goes, ‘armchair generals study strategy, but professionals study logistics’ forgets the last part that only fools put all their eggs in one basket.
- noir_lord 12y ago
  Agreed, also the Bison is interesting because the Russian's put their state of the art (which might not be the wests, I'm not sure) equipment into a plane that first flew 59 years ago and went into service 56 years ago. That it turned out to be extremely capable is very interesting and compared to the stuff the west is building very cheap. As I think Lenin said "Quantity has a quality all of it's own".