6 ms·

I couldn't agree more. the article is well written, but the title puts me off a lot. How am I going to show this to my boss, and have him take it seriously wit

I couldn't agree more. the article is well written, but the title puts me off a lot. How am I going to show this to my boss, and have him take it seriously with such an infantile title?

kyberias 11y ago
Why would you want to show it to your boss?
- mrbig4545 11y ago
  I tend to keep him updated with rust news, so that when the day comes, I've laid enough groundwork to be able to do something in it without having to explain what it is and why etc. And part of that is showing flaws, and how they're resolved/worked around and so on.
nosefrog 11y ago
You have the right to your own feelings, and I agree that the title may be off putting. The audience for the article is rust core contributors and rust fans, and they're a very informal bunch. If rusters are like similar communities I know, talking about poop makes a blog post more likely to spread. EDIT: I do not want to argue with Dewey2, so I'm putting this here: the women in the rust community that feel uncomfortable when they are addressed as "guys" have every right to feel that way, and I commend the rust community on making that stand.
- Dewie2 11y ago
  A community that is informal enough to give analogies involving poop, but too uptight to stomach the gender-neutral use of the word "guys"[1]. Makes sense. [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1nvsdh/a_note_on_conduct_please_read/ccmnjdj http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1nvsdh/a_note_on_condu...
  - Ygg2 11y ago
    Because toilet humor and gender discrimination are the same?
    - Dewie2 11y ago
      Because "guys" is gender discrimination? Give me a break. Might as well call ~everyone who speaks the Spanish language massive sexists while you're at it. I guess it is if you're oversensitive to everything that might be construed as sexist, through any historical, cultural etc. link. Like some people are oversensitive about bodily functions. Besides, some groups of people might be put off by such crass analogies. You don't want to exclude those people, do you Ygg2?
      - Manishearth 11y ago
        Yeah, no, the default male plural pronoun in other languages is a language feature. One doesn't feel like they're being called male when it's used. On the other hand "guys" sounds like you're being called, well, a guy (and English has singular they and many other constructs that can be used in its place). Usage of "guys" makes many women feel they don't belong. It perpetuates ideas about programming being a boys club that shouldn't exist. Poop jokes might make some people uncomfortable, but they're not as harmful as "guys". Plus, if you read kibwen's comment below that, it's not something that's considered a serious offence, but you will be asked to stop. The same would probably go for excessive poop jokes in IRC or whatever. (Also, it's an unofficial blog post. Not the same standards. There wouldn't be poop jokes on an official blog post, and there wouldn't be much of a ruckus if someone used "guys" in an unofficial one)
        Dewie2 11y ago
        I guess the Rust community isn't so carefree and non-sensitive after all. > On the other hand "guys" sounds like you're being called, well, a guy "Guys" means that you're in a mixed gender company. > (and English has singular they and many other constructs that can be used in its place). And that's great. But it can lead to writing that feels unnatural - because "they" means something else in other contexts, and it is unusual - so it isn't like it's a clear, objective win over the more usual form. > Usage of "guys" makes many women feel they don't belong. It perpetuates ideas about programming being a boys club that shouldn't exist. I guess they don't feel like they belong in any part of mixed gender society then, since it is so widespread. Or are programmers really that more inclined to say "guys"? I guess I can see the argument for the fact that the programming group might be heavily male-skewed. > Poop jokes might make some people uncomfortable, but they're not as harmful as "guys". Which you're just going to arbitrarily decide? What do you propose to back that claim up with? Imagine a mixed gender group of people. They are having a normal conversation. All of a sudden, someone drops a sexual joke, or a toilet joke. I can imagine that some people might feel a bit put off, or like they don't belong. Now alternatively, someone says "Hey guys, let's go to the bowling alley". It's not obvious to me that some of the women are going to be more put off by that, then any one person in the group was put off by the sex/toilet joke. > Plus, if you read kibwen's comment below that, it's not something that's considered a serious offence, but you will be asked to stop. Jeez. > Also, it's an unofficial blog post. Not the same standards. Not the same standards as what? The fucking IIRC channel? The ruckus that started that rust thread was some jerk making a tasteless comment (of course not the "hey guys" thing) in IIRC. Is that an official outlet? It seems to me that anyone who is part of the Rust community is being asked to be mindful of using the word "guys". And though they can't police unofficial blog posts, I assume they would care how some member of the community - through an unofficial blog post or whatever - write, if he takes it "back to the community" (like posting the blog on the rust subreddit).
- kzrdude 11y ago
  There's nothing to suggest all other rust devs like this way of presenting it. I don't. I agree it's off-putting even if the issue itself is interesting.
vbezhenar 11y ago
> How am I going to show this to my boss, and have him take it seriously with such an infantile title? Probably the same way you would explain to your boss what KISS principle means or what WTF-metric for source code is :)
- mrbig4545 11y ago
  I don't know the wtf metric, but whatever it is it's not about "poop". So I'm going to say it's different.
  - vbezhenar 11y ago
    It's an old joke, but it has a bit of wisdom. Illustration: https://davidlongstreet.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/wtfm.jpg?w=940&h=846 https://davidlongstreet.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/wtfm.jpg...

I couldn't agree more. the article is well written, but the title puts me off a lot. How am I going to show this to my boss, and have him take it seriously with such an infantile title?

kyberias 11y ago

Why would you want to show it to your boss?

mrbig4545 11y ago
I tend to keep him updated with rust news, so that when the day comes, I've laid enough groundwork to be able to do something in it without having to explain what it is and why etc. And part of that is showing flaws, and how they're resolved/worked around and so on.

nosefrog 11y ago

You have the right to your own feelings, and I agree that the title may be off putting. The audience for the article is rust core contributors and rust fans, and they're a very informal bunch. If rusters are like similar communities I know, talking about poop makes a blog post more likely to spread. EDIT: I do not want to argue with Dewey2, so I'm putting this here: the women in the rust community that feel uncomfortable when they are addressed as "guys" have every right to feel that way, and I commend the rust community on making that stand.

Dewie2 11y ago
A community that is informal enough to give analogies involving poop, but too uptight to stomach the gender-neutral use of the word "guys"[1]. Makes sense. [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1nvsdh/a_note_on_conduct_please_read/ccmnjdj http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1nvsdh/a_note_on_condu...
- Ygg2 11y ago
  Because toilet humor and gender discrimination are the same?
  - Dewie2 11y ago
    Because "guys" is gender discrimination? Give me a break. Might as well call ~everyone who speaks the Spanish language massive sexists while you're at it. I guess it is if you're oversensitive to everything that might be construed as sexist, through any historical, cultural etc. link. Like some people are oversensitive about bodily functions. Besides, some groups of people might be put off by such crass analogies. You don't want to exclude those people, do you Ygg2?
    - Manishearth 11y ago
      Yeah, no, the default male plural pronoun in other languages is a language feature. One doesn't feel like they're being called male when it's used. On the other hand "guys" sounds like you're being called, well, a guy (and English has singular they and many other constructs that can be used in its place). Usage of "guys" makes many women feel they don't belong. It perpetuates ideas about programming being a boys club that shouldn't exist. Poop jokes might make some people uncomfortable, but they're not as harmful as "guys". Plus, if you read kibwen's comment below that, it's not something that's considered a serious offence, but you will be asked to stop. The same would probably go for excessive poop jokes in IRC or whatever. (Also, it's an unofficial blog post. Not the same standards. There wouldn't be poop jokes on an official blog post, and there wouldn't be much of a ruckus if someone used "guys" in an unofficial one)
      - Dewie2 11y ago
        I guess the Rust community isn't so carefree and non-sensitive after all. > On the other hand "guys" sounds like you're being called, well, a guy "Guys" means that you're in a mixed gender company. > (and English has singular they and many other constructs that can be used in its place). And that's great. But it can lead to writing that feels unnatural - because "they" means something else in other contexts, and it is unusual - so it isn't like it's a clear, objective win over the more usual form. > Usage of "guys" makes many women feel they don't belong. It perpetuates ideas about programming being a boys club that shouldn't exist. I guess they don't feel like they belong in any part of mixed gender society then, since it is so widespread. Or are programmers really that more inclined to say "guys"? I guess I can see the argument for the fact that the programming group might be heavily male-skewed. > Poop jokes might make some people uncomfortable, but they're not as harmful as "guys". Which you're just going to arbitrarily decide? What do you propose to back that claim up with? Imagine a mixed gender group of people. They are having a normal conversation. All of a sudden, someone drops a sexual joke, or a toilet joke. I can imagine that some people might feel a bit put off, or like they don't belong. Now alternatively, someone says "Hey guys, let's go to the bowling alley". It's not obvious to me that some of the women are going to be more put off by that, then any one person in the group was put off by the sex/toilet joke. > Plus, if you read kibwen's comment below that, it's not something that's considered a serious offence, but you will be asked to stop. Jeez. > Also, it's an unofficial blog post. Not the same standards. Not the same standards as what? The fucking IIRC channel? The ruckus that started that rust thread was some jerk making a tasteless comment (of course not the "hey guys" thing) in IIRC. Is that an official outlet? It seems to me that anyone who is part of the Rust community is being asked to be mindful of using the word "guys". And though they can't police unofficial blog posts, I assume they would care how some member of the community - through an unofficial blog post or whatever - write, if he takes it "back to the community" (like posting the blog on the rust subreddit).
kzrdude 11y ago
There's nothing to suggest all other rust devs like this way of presenting it. I don't. I agree it's off-putting even if the issue itself is interesting.

vbezhenar 11y ago

> How am I going to show this to my boss, and have him take it seriously with such an infantile title? Probably the same way you would explain to your boss what KISS principle means or what WTF-metric for source code is :)

mrbig4545 11y ago
I don't know the wtf metric, but whatever it is it's not about "poop". So I'm going to say it's different.
- vbezhenar 11y ago
  It's an old joke, but it has a bit of wisdom. Illustration: https://davidlongstreet.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/wtfm.jpg?w=940&h=846 https://davidlongstreet.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/wtfm.jpg...