4 ms·

If the cameras can be turned off, they will be turned off whenever some bad cop wants to do something he or she does not want to be on record. So the cameras wi

If the cameras can be turned off, they will be turned off whenever some bad cop wants to do something he or she does not want to be on record. So the cameras will not be useful. Either the cameras are on all the time, or you can forget about them.

bigiain 12y ago
Or you let the cops know that unexpectedly missing footage will be interpreted as strongly confirming of accusations against them. And then back that up with career advancement metrics designed to motivate individual cops to ensure their camera gear is working and reliable. Missing 2% of your bodycam footage a week without having made a documented effort to get it repaired/replaced is a warnable offence. Missing more than 5% you get your pay docked. Miss 5% more than twice in a calendar year is a sackable offence. Any claims made in court about events that happen while your bodycam footage is unavailable remove your usual police department protection, and expose you to civil suits that you're normally shielded from. If a civil suit rules that "in the balance of probabilities" you were wrong, you become personally exposed to damages. As the law & order types love to say "If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to fear." It cuts both ways.
- Snesker 12y ago
  That allowable 1.9% of 40-60 hours of work could be a murder.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- ptaipale 12y ago
  Cameras can malfunction. Buttons do malfunction. Having unexpected missing footage will be perfectly normal if there is a button that is used for breaks etc, because the police will have a reasonable explanation for why the button press didn't register (like "I was having a donut break, I was stepping out of the car, it looked as if someone was pulling a gun, and at the same time the police radio reported of a warning of an armed suspect, I could not stop there to confirm that the camera went on, I just ducked behind the car.") There's a wider culture issue with American police organisations, and my understanding is that the situation varies wildly across different states and cities. I don't think that adding complex camera usage rules will help a lot. I'm not American, and in my country of 5.5 million people the police use the gun about 50 times a year; in this context, pointing gun at someone counts as "using" the gun and needs to be reported. In 2013 the police fired six bullets (training shots are obviously not counted, but warning shots are). And that six bullets is not per one policeman, they are for the entire police force of 7800 police officers. And yes, the general public here has almost as many firearms per capita as the Americans do. It's just a different culture. Not one without violence or homicide, but still quite different, from the police point of view.
  - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
    It's not a complex rule. If you're an officer, have a camera, and you have been accused of wrongdoing, then summary dismissal of the charges will not be possible if the footage is absent.
JshWright 12y ago
> If the cameras can be turned off Have you given any thought to the implications of wearing a camera for 8-12 hours a day? Cops need to use the bathroom too... Body cameras will always need to have the ability to be turned off.
- ptaipale 12y ago
  Of course this is a real problem. But if the camera can be turned off, then it will not be recording all bad behaviour, because the policeman can turn it off when he wants to (and then, instead of going to the bathroom, he can shoot someone).

bigiain 12y ago

Or you let the cops know that unexpectedly missing footage will be interpreted as strongly confirming of accusations against them. And then back that up with career advancement metrics designed to motivate individual cops to ensure their camera gear is working and reliable. Missing 2% of your bodycam footage a week without having made a documented effort to get it repaired/replaced is a warnable offence. Missing more than 5% you get your pay docked. Miss 5% more than twice in a calendar year is a sackable offence. Any claims made in court about events that happen while your bodycam footage is unavailable remove your usual police department protection, and expose you to civil suits that you're normally shielded from. If a civil suit rules that "in the balance of probabilities" you were wrong, you become personally exposed to damages. As the law & order types love to say "If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to fear." It cuts both ways.

Snesker 12y ago
That allowable 1.9% of 40-60 hours of work could be a murder.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ptaipale 12y ago
Cameras can malfunction. Buttons do malfunction. Having unexpected missing footage will be perfectly normal if there is a button that is used for breaks etc, because the police will have a reasonable explanation for why the button press didn't register (like "I was having a donut break, I was stepping out of the car, it looked as if someone was pulling a gun, and at the same time the police radio reported of a warning of an armed suspect, I could not stop there to confirm that the camera went on, I just ducked behind the car.") There's a wider culture issue with American police organisations, and my understanding is that the situation varies wildly across different states and cities. I don't think that adding complex camera usage rules will help a lot. I'm not American, and in my country of 5.5 million people the police use the gun about 50 times a year; in this context, pointing gun at someone counts as "using" the gun and needs to be reported. In 2013 the police fired six bullets (training shots are obviously not counted, but warning shots are). And that six bullets is not per one policeman, they are for the entire police force of 7800 police officers. And yes, the general public here has almost as many firearms per capita as the Americans do. It's just a different culture. Not one without violence or homicide, but still quite different, from the police point of view.
- fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
  It's not a complex rule. If you're an officer, have a camera, and you have been accused of wrongdoing, then summary dismissal of the charges will not be possible if the footage is absent.

JshWright 12y ago

> If the cameras can be turned off Have you given any thought to the implications of wearing a camera for 8-12 hours a day? Cops need to use the bathroom too... Body cameras will always need to have the ability to be turned off.

ptaipale 12y ago
Of course this is a real problem. But if the camera can be turned off, then it will not be recording all bad behaviour, because the policeman can turn it off when he wants to (and then, instead of going to the bathroom, he can shoot someone).