4 ms·

“I think that people and companies need to be convinced that everything we do in the cyber domain is lawful and appropriate and necessary,” (Emphasis mine) Ste

“I think that people and companies need to be convinced that everything we do in the cyber domain is lawful and appropriate and necessary,” (Emphasis mine) Step 1, make this first point true at least (the second and third points will probably be debated until the heat-death of the universe). Quite heartened by the rest of the article though; techies standing by their principles.

pen2l 12y ago
> Quite heartened by the rest of the article though; techies standing by their principles. Funny principles, those. Ads, privacy violations, more ads, dark patterns, some more ads.
- AndrewKemendo 12y ago
  No, those are just those pesky business people forcing that on the purity of my Docker lib.
higherpurpose 12y ago
Unfortunately they've already managed to convince Apple that its zero-day sharing program is "lawful" and that Apple is doing a good thing there. Or Apple just conveniently ignored the fact that those zero-days are given to the NSA on a silver platter, so the company can get its Apple Pay integrated with federal services (funny how that deal was announced at the same time Apple agreed to share its zero-days with the government - no? Yet, virtually all the Apple-loving media seemed to conveniently ignore what that meant). http://www.ibtimes.com/us-federal-government-accept-apple-pay-starting-september-1816084 http://www.ibtimes.com/us-federal-government-accept-apple-pa... Either way, the deed is done, and now the government thinks that if it could convince Apple, then it can convince other weaker-minded people and companies as well. And it's just a matter of putting enough pressure on them (through the new DHS office in Silicon Valley). After all, their deals made with the telecom companies many decades ago worked pretty well - so why not tech companies, too, especially if they promise them immunity from ever having to worry about legal repercussions for their relationship with the NSA.
- chrisbolt 12y ago
  Any citations? I can't find anything when I search for "apple zero day sharing program" or "apple zero day nsa". http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/06/14/nsa-gets-early-access-to-zero-day-data-from-microsoft-others/ http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/06/14/nsa-gets-early-ac... doesn't mention apple.
  - higherpurpose 12y ago
    Then try "cyber-sharing" executive order. It's the same thing. They are supposed to share "vulnerabilities" and "other data" about the potential targets. Same thing with the new CISA/NPCA bills.
- tptacek 12y ago
  I'm pretty certain none of this is true. It's frustrating that people can collect easy upvotes for writing innuendo like this. Note: you didn't argue that there were public policy implications to proposed legislation. You said Apple is sharing zero-day vulnerabilities, and that they're doing it to get Apple Pay accepted by FedGov clients. You've made extremely serious accusations here and insulted the integrity of a lot of good people. So I think you're now obligated to back up your extraordinary claims with evidence. Will you do that, please?
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Your other option, if you don't have evidence that Apple has deliberately shared zero-day vulnerabilities with the USG, let alone done so in order to secure contracts with them, would be to apologize. Everyone's different, but personally: I would be uncomfortable in the limbo of having neither supported such a grave and specific argument nor apologized for carelessly starting a rumor campaign about it.

pen2l 12y ago

> Quite heartened by the rest of the article though; techies standing by their principles. Funny principles, those. Ads, privacy violations, more ads, dark patterns, some more ads.

AndrewKemendo 12y ago
No, those are just those pesky business people forcing that on the purity of my Docker lib.

higherpurpose 12y ago

Unfortunately they've already managed to convince Apple that its zero-day sharing program is "lawful" and that Apple is doing a good thing there. Or Apple just conveniently ignored the fact that those zero-days are given to the NSA on a silver platter, so the company can get its Apple Pay integrated with federal services (funny how that deal was announced at the same time Apple agreed to share its zero-days with the government - no? Yet, virtually all the Apple-loving media seemed to conveniently ignore what that meant). http://www.ibtimes.com/us-federal-government-accept-apple-pay-starting-september-1816084 http://www.ibtimes.com/us-federal-government-accept-apple-pa... Either way, the deed is done, and now the government thinks that if it could convince Apple, then it can convince other weaker-minded people and companies as well. And it's just a matter of putting enough pressure on them (through the new DHS office in Silicon Valley). After all, their deals made with the telecom companies many decades ago worked pretty well - so why not tech companies, too, especially if they promise them immunity from ever having to worry about legal repercussions for their relationship with the NSA.

chrisbolt 12y ago
Any citations? I can't find anything when I search for "apple zero day sharing program" or "apple zero day nsa". http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/06/14/nsa-gets-early-access-to-zero-day-data-from-microsoft-others/ http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/06/14/nsa-gets-early-ac... doesn't mention apple.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  Then try "cyber-sharing" executive order. It's the same thing. They are supposed to share "vulnerabilities" and "other data" about the potential targets. Same thing with the new CISA/NPCA bills.
tptacek 12y ago
I'm pretty certain none of this is true. It's frustrating that people can collect easy upvotes for writing innuendo like this. Note: you didn't argue that there were public policy implications to proposed legislation. You said Apple is sharing zero-day vulnerabilities, and that they're doing it to get Apple Pay accepted by FedGov clients. You've made extremely serious accusations here and insulted the integrity of a lot of good people. So I think you're now obligated to back up your extraordinary claims with evidence. Will you do that, please?
- tptacek 12y ago
  Your other option, if you don't have evidence that Apple has deliberately shared zero-day vulnerabilities with the USG, let alone done so in order to secure contracts with them, would be to apologize. Everyone's different, but personally: I would be uncomfortable in the limbo of having neither supported such a grave and specific argument nor apologized for carelessly starting a rumor campaign about it.