56 ms·

hm, there were certainly many pieces of interesting code I have come across in the past (e.g., regular expression automata, details of compilers [simple but fas

by sb 17y ago

hm, there were certainly many pieces of interesting code I have come across in the past (e.g., regular expression automata, details of compilers [simple but fast like in Niklaus Wirth's compiler construction book], details of interpreters [Lisp SECD, Prolog WAM], etc.). PageRank was certainly among the highlights--clearity, brevity: one could immediately see that it was orders of magnitude better than the simple brute force method. Peter Norvigs simple Python script for a statistics-based spell checker is definitely a highlight, too. Hard as I try, I cannot for the love of god single out one piece among them. Interestingly, I can immediatly name the worst piece of source code I have ever seen: SAP DB. (I don't even know whether it's still available online, but it was ugly {formatting inconsistent, somplaces littered with German comments, etc.}--there are shurely better contenders for this place, but the fact that one of the biggest software companies produced it, let alone having clients using it sent shivers down my spine...) EDIT: PageRank, how could I have forgotten...

jacquesm 17y ago
> {formatting inconsistent, somplaces littered with German comments, etc.} I can see why formatting would not make it pretty but that would not say much about the algorithm, and why would German comments be ugly ? Programmers in different countries routinely comment their code in their native language, it's only natural really.
- sb 17y ago
  No specifics about an algorithm (it's a DBMS system, there would be plenty to look for ;) But the title does not include any algorithm-requirements for beautiful code. ad Language: Of course its only natural, albeit unprofessional. I would expect anybody in a project to code using English, comments and identifiers--regardless of where the people actually come from. IMHO this is good coding practice, but probably you have different experiences.
  - foldr 17y ago
    >I would expect anybody in a project to code using English Why? This might make sense for open source code at the moment, but if it's code internal to (say) a German organization, commenting in the native language of the coders is likely to be easier and lead to less confusion.
    - sb 17y ago
      But what if you have multi-national staff, or at least expect to hire non-natives?
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        In this case the answer would then be "Learn German". Most multi-nationals have coding standards that mandate the use of English though. But you'd be surprised how many companies that grew to be multi-nationals from regional companies have tons of code documented and written in the native language.
        sb 17y ago
        See, there is a catch 22: If they had used English in the first place, they wouldn't run into these problems later on ;)
        foldr 17y ago
        That's not a catch 22, it's just a problem.
    - mseebach 17y ago
      Because when you use English, you can write many statements that reads nicely - which you should aim for. if user.hasFoo() and company.isBar() then baz.play( jazz ) In German: if benutzer.hastFoo() and firma.istBar() then baz.spiel( jazz ) That's five language-switches in a single line. Much, much harder to read. (granted, only one if the language uses && and braces instead of and and then)
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    I think that greatly depends on the culture of the project and the language of those involved with it. Personally I code up all my stuff with identifiers, function names and comments in English. But I can't see why a German company writing code would be chastised for writing their code in German. I'd rather have them use German and do it properly than in broken English. Now in Germany most if not all programmers will be fluent (to some degree) in English, but in plenty of other countries that is not the case. Being able to program should not come with an automatic requirement to be fluent in English as well. Obviously there are issues with character sets when writing comments, plenty of language implementations wouldn't know what to do if you threw utf-8 at them, but I think that any modern implementation should allow for identifier names and comments to be in any language. Why should the English speaking world get a free pass here, and everybody else be at a disadvantage ?
    - sb 17y ago
      "Being able to program should not come with an automatic requirement to be fluent in English as well." It doesn't, and I merely said that I think it's good practice to do so. (For various reasons, e.g. a multi-national team, possible maintenance and re-engineering scenarios where it might be helpful to use standardized abbreviations, etc.) I have personally worked on a reengineering project that used German identifiers because of a very specific ERP system--it was ultimately decided not to use English identifiers because the translations would be too cumbersome. (This was a small company, what I am trying to say is a company like SAP [big] code a DBMS [inherently English domain] using German comments makes no sense to me...)
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        I think you have a 'neutrality of viewpoint' issue. SAP = BIG = not a reason to do stuff in english DBMS = inherently English domain because people don't use their own language, that's self-referential Using German comments makes perfect sense, SAP being a German company. It works like this: a company starts out making a product for their local market, they get successful and branch out, and then a large amount of time later their code gets opened up to programmers not familiar with the native language. Now, if the company were American, nobody would have a problem with dealing with identifiers and comments in what is for them a foreign language, say English. But I really don't see why an American programmer would have a bigger problem dealing with identifiers and comments in German than vv. Computer programming is not an exclusively English domain, and if to you code with identifiers and comments in a foreign language is hard to read then you have a bit of a hint how much effort the rest of the world has to make in order to make that step. The fact that English got there 'first' is already enough of a head start, that shouldn't mean it becomes mandatory. Something similar happens in the world of scientific publishing, where basically publishing in Spanish, Greek or Dutch is equal to not publishing at all. An algorithm with Dutch, German or Swahili identifiers and comments is exactly equivalent to one in English. Probably if you spent enough time you could figure out what the comments meant even if you didn't speak the language. Not that that would be very productive, and that's why most larger companies (and definitely multinationals) standardize on English. You should be happy that's the case, but it is by no means a requirement or a sign of not being professional. If 90% of the team is German I'm all for them coding in German.

by sb 17y ago

jacquesm 17y ago

> {formatting inconsistent, somplaces littered with German comments, etc.} I can see why formatting would not make it pretty but that would not say much about the algorithm, and why would German comments be ugly ? Programmers in different countries routinely comment their code in their native language, it's only natural really.

sb 17y ago
No specifics about an algorithm (it's a DBMS system, there would be plenty to look for ;) But the title does not include any algorithm-requirements for beautiful code. ad Language: Of course its only natural, albeit unprofessional. I would expect anybody in a project to code using English, comments and identifiers--regardless of where the people actually come from. IMHO this is good coding practice, but probably you have different experiences.
- foldr 17y ago
  >I would expect anybody in a project to code using English Why? This might make sense for open source code at the moment, but if it's code internal to (say) a German organization, commenting in the native language of the coders is likely to be easier and lead to less confusion.
  - sb 17y ago
    But what if you have multi-national staff, or at least expect to hire non-natives?
    - jacquesm 17y ago
      In this case the answer would then be "Learn German". Most multi-nationals have coding standards that mandate the use of English though. But you'd be surprised how many companies that grew to be multi-nationals from regional companies have tons of code documented and written in the native language.
      - sb 17y ago
        See, there is a catch 22: If they had used English in the first place, they wouldn't run into these problems later on ;)
        foldr 17y ago
        That's not a catch 22, it's just a problem.
  - mseebach 17y ago
    Because when you use English, you can write many statements that reads nicely - which you should aim for. if user.hasFoo() and company.isBar() then baz.play( jazz ) In German: if benutzer.hastFoo() and firma.istBar() then baz.spiel( jazz ) That's five language-switches in a single line. Much, much harder to read. (granted, only one if the language uses && and braces instead of and and then)
- jacquesm 17y ago
  I think that greatly depends on the culture of the project and the language of those involved with it. Personally I code up all my stuff with identifiers, function names and comments in English. But I can't see why a German company writing code would be chastised for writing their code in German. I'd rather have them use German and do it properly than in broken English. Now in Germany most if not all programmers will be fluent (to some degree) in English, but in plenty of other countries that is not the case. Being able to program should not come with an automatic requirement to be fluent in English as well. Obviously there are issues with character sets when writing comments, plenty of language implementations wouldn't know what to do if you threw utf-8 at them, but I think that any modern implementation should allow for identifier names and comments to be in any language. Why should the English speaking world get a free pass here, and everybody else be at a disadvantage ?
  - sb 17y ago
    "Being able to program should not come with an automatic requirement to be fluent in English as well." It doesn't, and I merely said that I think it's good practice to do so. (For various reasons, e.g. a multi-national team, possible maintenance and re-engineering scenarios where it might be helpful to use standardized abbreviations, etc.) I have personally worked on a reengineering project that used German identifiers because of a very specific ERP system--it was ultimately decided not to use English identifiers because the translations would be too cumbersome. (This was a small company, what I am trying to say is a company like SAP [big] code a DBMS [inherently English domain] using German comments makes no sense to me...)
    - jacquesm 17y ago
      I think you have a 'neutrality of viewpoint' issue. SAP = BIG = not a reason to do stuff in english DBMS = inherently English domain because people don't use their own language, that's self-referential Using German comments makes perfect sense, SAP being a German company. It works like this: a company starts out making a product for their local market, they get successful and branch out, and then a large amount of time later their code gets opened up to programmers not familiar with the native language. Now, if the company were American, nobody would have a problem with dealing with identifiers and comments in what is for them a foreign language, say English. But I really don't see why an American programmer would have a bigger problem dealing with identifiers and comments in German than vv. Computer programming is not an exclusively English domain, and if to you code with identifiers and comments in a foreign language is hard to read then you have a bit of a hint how much effort the rest of the world has to make in order to make that step. The fact that English got there 'first' is already enough of a head start, that shouldn't mean it becomes mandatory. Something similar happens in the world of scientific publishing, where basically publishing in Spanish, Greek or Dutch is equal to not publishing at all. An algorithm with Dutch, German or Swahili identifiers and comments is exactly equivalent to one in English. Probably if you spent enough time you could figure out what the comments meant even if you didn't speak the language. Not that that would be very productive, and that's why most larger companies (and definitely multinationals) standardize on English. You should be happy that's the case, but it is by no means a requirement or a sign of not being professional. If 90% of the team is German I'm all for them coding in German.