4 ms·

I don't agree with resigning. If you resign and are in the US, you give up the ability to file for unemployment. I would start cutting expenses and start look

I don't agree with resigning. If you resign and are in the US, you give up the ability to file for unemployment. I would start cutting expenses and start looking for something new until that day comes.

ErrantX 11y ago
Does the US allow "constructive dismissal" claims? In the UK, if you feel you are being worked out of a job the official advice is to quit, otherwise any claim of constructive dismissal becomes more complex.
- Silhouette 11y ago
  I can confirm this can be a serious concern in the UK system. Someone close to me was in a similar situation a little while ago and did start a formal grievance process. Thanks to what seems to have been bad/late professional advice, they missed one of the deadlines for taking things further and consequently that formal process terminated. Around that time, they started taking professional advice from a different source and exploring their options, continuing to work for the employer in the meantime. They subsequently concluded that the job was beyond hope and resigned, IIRC a couple of months later, and lawyers started exchanging letters to try and avoid formal action. As I understand it, just about the first thing the former employer's lawyers did was point out that the former employee had remained in the job for a considerable time after the end of the formal grievance process without (as far as the employer was concerned) taking any further action. They argued this was sufficient evidence that no problems serious enough to be considered constructive dismissal remained at that time, and as it turned out, that was effectively game over. (This matter never went to formal action. Reportedly the advice given to the former employee at that point was that their former employer had a decent chance of winning on that basis, and even if they lost it would cause a lot of time and stress to pursue the matter to its full conclusion with limited benefit likely to result.) YMMV, if you need legal advice talk to a lawyer, etc. Just make sure you get better professional advice than this unfortunate person did, and get second opinions early if anyone advising you seems to be slow to respond or otherwise giving you less than their full support.
- geoelectric 11y ago
  US is generally at-will(1), so the idea of being "subtly fired" only comes up in unemployment claims, where -sometimes- you can make the case you quit because you had no choice (hours dropped to zero, intentionally untenable working conditions, etc.). But otherwise, there are very few guarantees about the circumstances of being dismissed, and therefore not a lot of room for constructive dismissal type claims. (1) There are exceptions around specific circumstances: explicit contracts, implicit contracts (in some states) by way of publishing firing procedures in employee handbooks, and a requirement (in a very few states, but notably for software, California) for good-faith behavior by employers. PIPs are part of the "reason to dismiss" documentation for that last bit. Still, your usual recourse is collecting unemployment, not anything more drastic.
mhurron 11y ago
If you're fired in the US you may not be able to get unemployment either.
- colechristensen 11y ago
  To the contrary, you generally have to get fired to receive benefits unless you are quitting for exceptional reasons. To deny your unemployment claims after you've been fired or laid off, your employer has to dispute your claim and demonstrate serious conduct breaches while under oath. If you quit for general dissatisfaction, you're not covered. http://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/eligibility-for-unemployment-compensation-benefits.html http://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/eligibility-for-u...
- alistairSH 11y ago
  Usually, that only applies if you were fired for misconduct. And in places where firing for any reason is grounds for denying unemployment, most companies won't fight an appeal.
  - fsk 11y ago
    Frequently, they will word it as a layoff instead of a firing for cause, to avoid the potential lawsuit. Some minimum-wage employers would do firings to avoid paying unemployment, but that isn't as common at the professional level.
baldfat 11y ago
In the US you have limited Unemploment benifits. YOu get only so many months of full coverage and you get limits in other areas. If your single and you might get married make sure you don't take full unemployment benefits and maybe you just need to sponge off friends and families because getting fired and getting a "Do Not Rehire" puts a HUGE hole in your employment history.

ErrantX 11y ago

Does the US allow "constructive dismissal" claims? In the UK, if you feel you are being worked out of a job the official advice is to quit, otherwise any claim of constructive dismissal becomes more complex.

Silhouette 11y ago
I can confirm this can be a serious concern in the UK system. Someone close to me was in a similar situation a little while ago and did start a formal grievance process. Thanks to what seems to have been bad/late professional advice, they missed one of the deadlines for taking things further and consequently that formal process terminated. Around that time, they started taking professional advice from a different source and exploring their options, continuing to work for the employer in the meantime. They subsequently concluded that the job was beyond hope and resigned, IIRC a couple of months later, and lawyers started exchanging letters to try and avoid formal action. As I understand it, just about the first thing the former employer's lawyers did was point out that the former employee had remained in the job for a considerable time after the end of the formal grievance process without (as far as the employer was concerned) taking any further action. They argued this was sufficient evidence that no problems serious enough to be considered constructive dismissal remained at that time, and as it turned out, that was effectively game over. (This matter never went to formal action. Reportedly the advice given to the former employee at that point was that their former employer had a decent chance of winning on that basis, and even if they lost it would cause a lot of time and stress to pursue the matter to its full conclusion with limited benefit likely to result.) YMMV, if you need legal advice talk to a lawyer, etc. Just make sure you get better professional advice than this unfortunate person did, and get second opinions early if anyone advising you seems to be slow to respond or otherwise giving you less than their full support.
geoelectric 11y ago
US is generally at-will(1), so the idea of being "subtly fired" only comes up in unemployment claims, where -sometimes- you can make the case you quit because you had no choice (hours dropped to zero, intentionally untenable working conditions, etc.). But otherwise, there are very few guarantees about the circumstances of being dismissed, and therefore not a lot of room for constructive dismissal type claims. (1) There are exceptions around specific circumstances: explicit contracts, implicit contracts (in some states) by way of publishing firing procedures in employee handbooks, and a requirement (in a very few states, but notably for software, California) for good-faith behavior by employers. PIPs are part of the "reason to dismiss" documentation for that last bit. Still, your usual recourse is collecting unemployment, not anything more drastic.

mhurron 11y ago

If you're fired in the US you may not be able to get unemployment either.

colechristensen 11y ago
To the contrary, you generally have to get fired to receive benefits unless you are quitting for exceptional reasons. To deny your unemployment claims after you've been fired or laid off, your employer has to dispute your claim and demonstrate serious conduct breaches while under oath. If you quit for general dissatisfaction, you're not covered. http://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/eligibility-for-unemployment-compensation-benefits.html http://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/eligibility-for-u...
alistairSH 11y ago
Usually, that only applies if you were fired for misconduct. And in places where firing for any reason is grounds for denying unemployment, most companies won't fight an appeal.
- fsk 11y ago
  Frequently, they will word it as a layoff instead of a firing for cause, to avoid the potential lawsuit. Some minimum-wage employers would do firings to avoid paying unemployment, but that isn't as common at the professional level.

baldfat 11y ago

In the US you have limited Unemploment benifits. YOu get only so many months of full coverage and you get limits in other areas. If your single and you might get married make sure you don't take full unemployment benefits and maybe you just need to sponge off friends and families because getting fired and getting a "Do Not Rehire" puts a HUGE hole in your employment history.